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March 31, 2023

WOTMQ: Indoctrination, Brainwashing, & Grooming

It's amazing how myopic we can be. Last month, I made two videos pushing back on Prager, and it never occurred to me that he'd written a line that was so indicative of the kind of indoctrination, brainwashing, and grooming that goes on in "religious homes." (I hope I didn't give too much away with that.). It only occurred to me when a viewer pointed it out in the comments.

No one does it better than the religious! Am I right? Can I get a witness? And somehow, we all just accept it, and — for the most part, think nothing of it. It's really creepy!

Thanks again, you beautiful, talented, generous people! Enjoy!!! B

WOTMQ: Indoctrination, Brainwashing, & Grooming (YouTube)

Comments (12)

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2AHD Cat · April 3, 2023

Higher education? Oh noes! Not EDUCATION! The HORROR! lol.

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Lisa Blizzard · April 1, 2023

Much appreciation to both Louise and Brian. My sincerest thanks.

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Lisa Blizzard · April 1, 2023

I was free to put a toe in any church I wanted. And I chose, arguably, the most fun churches that my friends went to. It was not a choice based on anything I believed in. (At 8, I believed I would fly if I jumped far enough from the tallest point I could climb to.) How could an 8 year old not love going to a church where the grown ups acted infuckingsane for two hours and let the kids join in? Dancing, whooping, hollering, amen-ing, shouting, shaking, running up and down the aisle, prostration, fainting, crying hysterically,.. it was fanfuckingtastic. That lasted for about two years and then I was onto other things that were becoming more interesting to 10 year old me. I have always looked back fondly on that time. Except… I never forgot exactly why I really stopped going. Unbeknownst to me, a prepubescent little girl (8-10), my friend that I had been so very close to and spent days, nights and weekends (we literally lived right across the street from each other until I was 12) at each other’s houses until I was 10, was being sexually abused by her father. The father finally wanted me to be a part of the abuse and I was met with a situation that I was able to extricate myself from by claiming that if I didn’t get home my mother would be at their door looking for me, as we were planning to go out somewhere. I don’t know where I said. Probably dinner, but I digress. I never was inside their house ever again. Church stopped. I lived in Arkansas. Military kid. The area I lived in was about as Southern as you could get. There was one school 1st-12th. Also served the base kids, it was a very good school educationally, considering many of the teachers were (mostly) military spouses, and a smaller number of locals, who taught. Regardless, the local population, of which there were about 6,000 (no kidding, the town was that small, base inhabitants were not a part of the census for local population) must have been churning out incest victims and perpetrators by the 100’s over the years as every couple of years one of the victims’ mothers found out, or had become able to finally fight back against their childrens’ abusers, as it would spill out in a very public way and then the law would become involved. One incident, in particular, has stuck with me. One of my friends that I had known since I was in the second grade, had been abused by her father for years. The normally sweet, exceedingly kind, extraordinarily generous woman that I had known her mother to be, will forever be remembered for the picture taken by a reporter of an eerily calm, exceedingly frightening, extraordinarily angry woman with a 12 gauge shotgun aimed at the head of a kneeling man with his hands behind him, they were tied, and his face distorted from the beating he had received from his wife and another of her family members. The father, her husband, had been caught red handed in bed with his daughter. Long story short, he lived and went to prison. The family moved away. The mother was never prosecuted. This was the third incident that had spilled over into public between my 5th to 8th grade years. It might sound like fiction, but I assure you, it is not. This was during the 70’s. Culture wars, politics and the law were still not inclusive of “family problems, best taken care of in private.” Shortly after my 8th grade year, we were transferred to another base, out of the State of Arkansas. (Then the eighties began. Reagan and the Satanic Panic engulfed a country! Oh yeah!) Please, take away what you will from my recollection of events. But as I have evolved and aged and become more and more disgusted with the slimy film of respectability that a majority attach to being a member of a religious group and community and have changed from being not only an atheist, but an antitheist, I am grateful for my fellows, like Brian and the others on YouTube, along with the other commenters, that call BS on Dennis Prager and the rest. As Christopher Hitchens said, “Religion poisons EVERYTHING.”

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Louise C · April 1, 2023

I am sorry to hear about your friend. I too grew up with a more religiously open family. My mother, grew up with a protestant preacher for a father, joined the Bahai faith and lived in a commune for a few year and then returned to Christianity. She had an open policy that once we were 13 you could choose which religion and church if any you wanted to go to and she would accept it. My father would make us amazing Sunday breakfasts but was an unashamed Atheist who even my Grandmother couldn't get into Church except for our baptisms. He grew up in Catholic schools as a military brat. My mom chose the Presbyterian Church perhaps as a compromise between my very Catholic Grandma and my anti Catholic church father. I was the troubling girl in Sunday school who cried during the plagues story and refused to accept that it could be righteous in any way for God to kill the first born children in Egypt or all the innocent animals during the flood. The typical exchange when someone tried to comfort me went a bit like this. "What's wrong? Why are you crying?" "Why did he kill the kids when they didn't do anything wrong? It's unfair! Why did god do something so bad?" "It isn't unfair, it was a good thing and just judgement." "But they didn't do anything! Why not kill the parents instead!?" "Because, what he did was the right thing to do. God is all knowing, so even if we don't understand it, in the big picture that only God can see, it was the just and good thing. It could have been avoided it the Pharaoh let his people go." "If my parents did something wrong and God killed me to punish them would it be called just?" "Yes, it would. But don't worry, it's fine the kids got taken to be with God in heaven so it wasn't a bad thing" "But what if they wanted to stay with their parents? Or be alive? Aren't only Christians allowed in heaven?" "This was before Jesus. And the kids would be much happier in heaven so they happily went with God" "But if Jesus died so we can go to heaven and he hadn't died yet, how come those kids got to go to heaven? Was it God's way of saying sorry? Does everyone killed by God get to go to heaven?" "No God didn't need to say sorry because what he did was Just. These were kids, and God loves the little children and they would be much happier in heaven than with their sinful parents and growing up to be sinners who would probably go to hell." "So if a non Christian kid dies before becoming an adult they get to go to heaven?" "Yes." "So... killing kids is a good thing if they aren't going to be Christian adults." "It is when God does it." "But why just when God does it?" "Because he's God. Why don't you finish up that craft, so you can show it to your mom, who will be here soon?." I pretty much decided that adult interpretations of the bible as the ones I got through organized religion were contradictory and dumb. But I remained a believer to some extent in Jesus until my 20s. At 13 I got myself confirmed into the Lutheran church because they had a youth group that went on yearly ski trips and I was willing to put up with Church for the chance to try skiing. My older sister stopped going to any Church at 13 and my mom was completely fine with it. My younger sister joined a youth church that distributed interpreted copies of the bible. Which she studied and highlighted, but I am pretty sure she just did it for the social benefits in our super Christian tiny military town, as soon as she left town she never went to church again. My mother still tried to get me to go with to whatever church she was currently a member of every now and then. I would occasionally so long as she could guarantee nos peaking in tongues. Speaking in tongues really freaks me out and as a kid made me feel unsafe. I don't trust people spouting literal nonsense while out of control of their bodies, claiming it came from God given what I knew they believed about him. Especially as the only minority in the room most of the times. The last time I went with her was when the post sermon immediately started that shit while I was trapped holding their hands. It was horrible.

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Dianne Marie Leonard · March 31, 2023

On the other hand the nuns and priests started showing their hands very early. I remember getting physically tossed out of catechism class (Catholic Sunday school) at age 8 because I asked where heaven and hell were. I mean everybody had seen that picture of John Glenn in his Mercury space capsule, and everybody knew the Godless Communist Russians had spacemen too. So I figured that pictures or a news article about somebody spotting heaven or hell would be available. The nun tossed me out for "asking impertinent questions" and threatened that I wouldn't be able to make first communion if I continued with my "evil behavior." (Her words, not mine.) Funny how they never answered the question--just decided I was impertinent. To a kid like me, who wanted to KNOW STUFF, well, that began my odyssey away, not to be completed til I ran away from home at 17.

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Louise C · April 1, 2023

Damn how hard is it to say "No one knows, but some people see it sometimes, and they are too awestruck to take photos."? Or "Heaven cannot be perceived by anything but the eye of the soul." Even George Lucas originally got a believable (for 8 year olds) excuse as to "why doesn't everyone use the force if it is all around everyone?" It feels like creative people make religions and a lot of the most devout followers are less creative. Edit: had to edit this due to the fact that there have been a lot of very creative religious people. Though I find that a sad number of them attribute their creative gifts to God in a way more than normal inspiration. Thinking that they are not creative in their own rights and their ideas are handed to them by god.

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Mark D Larsen · March 31, 2023

Yup… groomed! As the parents had been by the grandparents, groomed by the great-grandparents, groomed by the great-great-grandparents… and on and on and on. I recognize such grooming everytime some right-wingnut sends out a christmas card with the entire family, including all the kids, holding AR-15 assault rifles. Groomed!

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Brian Keith Dalton · March 31, 2023

Those holiday cards are so gross!!!

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Dianne Marie Leonard · March 31, 2023

Yup. I grew up in just such a home--in my case, Catholic. I'm told that, by the age of two, I had memorized every prayer in the prayerbook, and could recite them on command. By the time I was eight, I had every prayer in the Catholic Mass memorized--in Latin. So, yeah, the indoctrination goes very, very deep.

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Brian Keith Dalton · March 31, 2023

A two-year old reciting a prayerbook is about the creepiest thing I can imagine in terms of indoctrination.

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Francis Srečko Fabian · March 31, 2023

I used to that bowing and clasping hands stuff. I also did the sign of the cross (I could never remember which came first, left or right). As a catholic I was baptised in the first few months (to be fair, I wasn't expected to last that long.

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Brian Keith Dalton · March 31, 2023

Glad you decided to stick around!