Mad Men 3x08 Reaction
Comments (24)
All the comments trying to explain Pete give a real ick to my soul
He’s a good character. It’s fun to watch good characters and discuss them 🤷🏻♂️
This reaction is why i watch reactions. L&M are way more perceptive about human and romantic relationship stuff than i am. They're asking the right questions and pointing out the important plot points that i just didn't pay as much attention to my first time watching. I want the next 10 episodes now lol
I always to want to like Pete, but he does not make it easy. Sometimes he is kind and sweet, like even when he says ‘isn’t that smart’ to Joan, I feel like he means it. ‘Like oh you’ve done a clever thing here well done’ but then has a very dark side trying to live up to something.
He's trying to be like Don and failing spectacularly. I don't think this kind of stuff is what he truly wants deep down, but it's what he thinks he has to do to feel like a man. (for that matter it's not what Don truly wants either, but at least Don is good at it and doesn't come off like a predator)
In regards to your circuit breaker: I've done that same thing once in a while. Some boxes don't fully flick to "off", there's a middle position, where you have to flick it to off, then back on. I believe it's to make sure you know which one has popped the breaker, and which was just shut off. But sometimes it fools you for a while...
OK, I'll stand up for Don here. He excused himself from that conversation at the front door because he could tell Carla wanted to speak privately with Betty.
every episode someone has to be the don defender and if you're not sure who it is, it's your turn 😩 (i agree)
"Girl, you can take a knife and stab him. Its allowed. I will" lmao
I had no idea that Pete's scenes were supposed to be read any other way. I always saw it as a direct non-consensual rape, and I thought that's how we were MEANT to see it. My interpretation was that it was meant to show how dangerous self-interest and entitlement can be even without Malice: Pete doesn't specifically want to HURT this woman, but he does anyway because he's that focused on himself without any concern for her. I think the reason Betty is SO responsive to Henry Francis, is that he SEES her. It almost doesn't matter what he actually does to woo her. She's enamored that here is a man -- who is successful and powerful like Don -- who looks at her like that. We know Don hasn't looked at her like that since before they were married. To see Henry take time out of his day to help her, and saying that the only reward he needs is the feeling that he gets from making her happy, is like Prince Charming for her.
Henry is very charming here, it feels like an old school hollywood movie courtship except one of the people is married w/ 3 kids oopsy.
This will likely be the only time I do this for the entire show but I'm going to transcribe the DVD commentary for this episode, because it's helpful context: Matthew Weiner (show creator): Do you think he rapes her? [...] Vincent Kartheiser (Pete's actor): I think it's what you said, she's in a position in this country where everyone's her boss. So in that way there's a level of sexual harassment to any sort of encounter MW: I felt that she on some level would have wanted to be with him but there's no doubt in my mind that he forced the situation Lisa Albert (the episode writer): I felt that she gave him permission MW: Yeah she did give him permission LA: But I didn't feel that she wanted to be with him MW: That's exactly what I'm saying, I totally agree Please bear in mind this is DVD boxset commentary recorded ~2009, so their understanding of language around consent etc is 15+ years out of date. This is actually the third thing where someone said "on the commentary they said XYZ" on Reddit, then when I listened to the commentary it doesn't match what the person said. Always check your primary sources gang! For my own thoughts I'll just copy what I wrote on Discord when we were discussing this last week: "Even if she consents, even if she 'wanted to', she can't say no due to her employment position (will be deported), so whether its 'consensual' or desired is not relevant to me". I will say that Pete does face one consequence: his guilt and shame is so obvious he implicitly admits it to Trudy and she implicitly acknowledges it. This is something they both "know" (like how Betty "knew"?) about their marriage moving forward, presumably. 100% agree on the Don/Betty takes. IMO she was testing if the relationship can still be good, and it can be, but only temporarily, only in Rome. Back home its the same old deal: married to a philanderer who will never put your needs above work, who barely even sees you when you aren't putting in effort, who expects you to be a magical perfect housewife with nothing else going on. It was nice seeing Don in full charming mode though, it gives you a taste of what he was like when they first started dating, it's easy to believe she would fall madly in love with him and 'run off to make babies'. Bonus Thoughts: No Peggy or Roger story this episode and you don't notice at all, it's a really strong ensemble cast. Joan doesn't even work their any more and she's still keeping sordid secrets for Sterling Cooper executives. I know Betty's advice to Sally is probably not "good" but its cute she's trying to share a honest truth with her for once.
There's obviously a power imbalance at play here and I (usually) I think you have to read what's in the on-screen text of the show, but it's also worth sharing that, according to Kartheiser, the actress simply wasn't comfortable with some of what was scripted and that they had to adapt on the day to "imply" what happens. It's a fair criticism to say that they didn't do a good job of depicting the story they wanted to depict -- and we probably should hold stories about sexual assault and coercion to a higher standard when it comes to communicating what is (or isn't) happening -- but there are production realities that can impede that sometimes. Certainly it's better to be hearing this story than the all-to-common alternative where the actress was pressured into doing something she didn't want to do.
Damn, I totally forgot Pete did that shit. Of all the shit Pete does I would think this one would stick.. Cause if this was supposed to be just cheating, then it didn’t come across in the show.
I edited it
Before and After knowing the intentions of the scene between Pete and the Au Pair, both times it still plays INSANE. I understand they have 7 days to shoot each episode but, at any time in either the writing, shooting and editing process, how did anybody not see that whatever was intended DOES NOT translate one bit on screen.
In my mind, if you want to make it look at least a little bit more consensual, you MUST have the woman be more forward about wanting to thank him for his help and have Pete be okay with no thanks at all. If she's clearly the one initiating you'll go "yeah it's still gross cheating but he didn't pressure her". They did the exact opposite, not only did he ASK for a thank you, she was clearly uncomfortable and even told him about her boyfriend to try and dissuade him. After that he goes back AGAIN to demand a quid pro quo. At that point it absolutely doesn't matter anymore if she "kisses him back" or not, this is a rape scene. How could you write these scenes this way if that wasn't your intention?
I think Pete's privileged upbringing is a big reason why he always thinks he deserves everything, even if his parents weren't great, he had it amazing compared to most Americans. This made him not fit to handle situations where he's not immediately given the keys to the kingdom, he never developed the tools to deal with rejection, he never had to. No surprise he then acts like a child, the way he shows shame to Trudy is the same.
Great reaction! Yeahhhhh I was dreading this episode. Pete stans (aka me) taking a big L tonight. I'm sure the other commenters will delve a little deeper into those scenes but yeah. Goddammit Pete! "Then I can have something to look at when I tell the story about the time we went to Rome." LOVE this line. After all that, the trip didn't elicit a positive lasting change in their relationship. It was all a dream, they were just pretending. Now it'll be nothing more than a vague memory, a story about something that happened. Heartbreaking that the only time Don seems genuinely passionate about his wife is when they're literally roleplaying as strangers.
My boy loves the hunt. Chasing women? FUN! Being married? omg so boring! am i right fellas? It's the patriarchal idea that men have to conquer women like they're trophies that completely contradicts monogamous relationships, there is no making sense of it. It's not surprising that cheating was at some point seen as being okay (or the woman's fault), cause apparently it was just "man's nature". Like sure guys, we wanna fuck around? Let's do open relationship instead. Seems nice until the idea of the women also fucking around makes them upset, after all she's MY trophy.
Even though the Pete scene is clearly rape and coercion, they weirdly didn't intend for it to read that way. Vincent Kartheiser said the Au Pair actress was supposed to kiss him back, and that Matthew Weiner said it wasn't supposed to be rape. Which begs the question, why have Pete basically force himself in after being rejected the first time? Why allude to the Au Pair crying? To me it seems like either things got lost in translation from script to filming, or Matthew Weiner doesn't understand the gravity of sexual coercion
It would still be rape if she kissed him back, he has her cornered, there's an implication that he could tell on her and there's a power imbalance, she can't really consent anymore. If I'm honest I don't really trust them saying they didn't intend it to be read this way, there's too many things wrong here for it to be one or two lines or scenes that weren't done right. I think it IS possible they realized after the fact that this was wrong to put in Pete's character arc. There is no other reading of what happened here, it's rape. At best it's idiotic writing if they thought this would come across any other way.
Okay, that story about the electricity was really funny. I hope you can still cook the chicken tomorrow. I always feel bad when I let food go bad :D
half-cooked chicken soup lets goooo 😋