The Sopranos 4x09 Reaction
just no words
Comments (38)
And so ends Ralph Cifaretto. This episode earned Joe Pantoliano an Emmy nomination and it’s easy to understand why. This is Ralph at his most sympathetic and human, and is the episode he dies. As someone else pointed out, multiple lines tie to the song ‘Sympathy for the Devil’ which honestly could have been the title of the episode it’s so fitting. Ambiguity reigns in this episode. Did Tony kill Ralph for Tracee or Pie-O-My or both? Did Ralph burn the stable down or is he actually innocent? Is Junior actually suffering from dementia? All good questions, and as Junior would say, who says there is an answer? Ambiguity and uncertainty are truly central to the shows thesis, and ‘Whoever Did This’ is a core tenet of this. One thing is not up for debate however. Tony killing Ralph here is easily his most impulsive and heedless action yet, the consequences of which remain to be seen, but Chris knows this is not going to go down well. The ending song is a cover of ‘Man With a Harmonica’ from the movie ‘Once Upon a Time in the West’. One of Tony and Ralph’s previous showdowns after Tracee’s death was scored to ‘Ghost Riders in the Sky’, giving the scene a western showdown flavour. Tony may be victorious, but he does not end the episode standing proud like a hero defeating a villain. In the episode with Tracee, Silvio refers to her as a ‘thoroughbred’. In that same episode, Meadows roommate Caitlin talks about going to a horse farm. These small pieces of connective tissue are really impressive to me, and makes this show more an intricate tapestry than just about any other TV show before or since.
I couldn't believe this episode made me feel bad for Ralph, who is a contender for the worst person in a show full of bad people.
Some little links in this episode: Ralph's son is injured while fooling around playing at movie fights, the thing which previously Ralph was constantly doing with Gladiator, notably when he injured Georgie at the Bing. His son carried on his behaviour and paid the price. Fits with how when Ralph is having his reckoning he says that God is punishing him for his misdeeds. The stupid thing that he did to others was turned onto his son, and in the same way that he describes the fire that killed Pie-O-My as a "bolt from beyond", his son was struck by an arrow falling from the sky, like he was shot by God himself. Thematically, it's a big difference to being hit by a car, for example. Another thing is how we see Pie-O-My wrapped in a tarp and then dragged away with a chain, and then later Tony uses a chain to wrap Ralph's body. Adding to the other Satanic hints and imagery others have pointed out around Ralph, the goat is unharmed after the fire at the stables. The goat is commonly symbolic of the devil, and its presence is given emphasis at the beginning of the episode when Carmela rather strangely points it out for some reason – "what is that, a goat?". During the fight with Ralph, Tony has oven cleaner sprayed in his face. After this, he keeps washing his face/eyes. I would say this is symbolic of crying/tears, as he isn't really crying for real. Immediately after killing Ralph he washes his face at the kitchen sink so it is wet, as if he was crying. Later when showering we see him focusing the spray directly into his face. This fits ironically with a theme this episode of Ralph being open and honest with his grief with a lot of real tears (drawn attention to when Paulie accuses Ralph of crying "alligator tears").
"Boys, no fires. Tony doesn't want any fires" - Ralph in 3x02 It was left ambiguous if Ralph did or did not kill the horse, but interestingly David Chase told Joe Pantoliano to play it as if he didn't. We also had the continuation of the "Western" motif of the conflict between Tony and Ralph, in which it was started over a horse, and the music for the credits is a remix of Man with the Harmonica. The original song is from a film called Once Upon a Time in the West. Tony often likens himself to western anti-heroes of old (Gary Cooper, the strong silent type), and probably was expecting to be some sort of hero for killing Ralph, but the end result of their conflict is a messy violent morally-twisted battle royale that ends with Ralph's head in a bowling ball bag. The western tune is altered to be more synthetic, cold and calculating, it's an epic track but is altered from its original western grandeur. It's now something more akin to a spooky murder mystery track. A great metaphor for how warped Tony's sense of morality is. Tracee is also shown in the photo at the end of the episode. Her death has been a driving point between Tony and Ralph's conflict, and while on the surface Tony killed Ralph over the horse, there's also a tinge of his anger towards Tracee's treatment that explodes in their fight (She was a beautiful innocent creature, what does she ever do to you?). If season 1 and season 2 is about Tony's rise to power, season 3 and 4 is about how Tony maintains his power. We saw him made plenty of mistakes already, and Chris pointed this out to him in this episode that his actions won't be taken kindly by the other captains. I interpret the final scene of this episode as Tony not having anyone else around him, and how he is truly alone now.
" I interpret the final scene of this episode as Tony not having anyone else around him, and how he is truly alone now." Which is fitting because he was also alone in being the only one who really gave a shit that Ralphie killed Tracee so it's fitting that he notices the photo alone in this context, after a long night before finally walking out into the day. It's a very layered scene for how little dialogue there is.
It’s been pretty well established by now that Tony can’t truly care for people given what he does for a living; if he did he’d implode. So he has to bury the fact that his friends/colleagues pimped out, raped, assaulted and ultimately killed Tracee, a young woman who reminded him of his daughter, because in the context of “this thing” that’s fair game. Animals on the other hand are a safer outlet for him, he can feel towards them in a way he can’t towards humans. The horse was the straw that pushed Tony over the edge with Ralphie, but it was about Tracee.
Yes, I feel like if the hatred for his character wasn't so strong, this would have been clocked by now instead of reducing it to just not feeling emotions. It's the same way he could admit everything wrong about his mother (he calls her miserable, a cunt, old bat etc.) but he literally cannot admit that she tried to physically have him killed or if he does, he coats it with layers of self-blame and justification, because it hits too close to what he does for a living.
The irony how Tony says to Paulie “no one’s killing anybody” then in the same episode does exactly that
There are parts of this show that are morbidly hilarious. It's so good!
In the outro, you guys brought up my favorite underrated aspect of the show. These guys put out so much evil into the world but the karmic payback can come back to them in ways that are ramdom and unpredictable. Richie is plotting against Tony but gets taken out after a fight with Janice. Ralph dies because of the horse (which he may not have even been responsible for), but it could have been for Tracee or the joke about Ginny Sack. The show constantly keeps us guessing. To quote Ralphie: things can happen like "a bolt from beyond."
Still can’t believe Tony found him like this
In the episode where Artie attempted suicide, you two pointed out that Tony "stopped" when he decided to call the ambulance instead of driving to Artie's home. You discussed how him continuing to go to Artie's house wouldn't have helped anything, but it would have shown the human urge to do something when it's a real feeling. When Ralph's son is injured here, Ralph RUNS. He runs out to him in the yard, then he runs back to the house to call the ambulance. He had all of the urgency and panic that comes with real fear and panic. Whether or not Ralph actually set the fire is one of those age-old questions that people still argue about. Somebody in another comment pointed out that David Chase (Creator) said Ralph did it, but Joe Pantoliano (the actor who played Ralph) said that he played the final scene as Ralph being honest when he denied doing it. For my part, I don't think he did it, because he doesn't want to piss Tony off. I mentioned this in a previous episode comment, but Ralph is very good at Doing Crime, and he doesn't want to fight with Tony. Ever since he floated the idea to Johnny Sack last season and got rejected hard, he's smart enough to realize that he wouldn't win. Ralph can't help but continue being a general asshole and piece of shit, but ever since then he's been a good worker to keep Tony on his side. So I don't think he would try to cause a problem now. Under "the rules", there is absolutely no defense for Tony for what he did here. Unlike when he planned to kill Richie Aprile in season two, Tony doesn't have any legitimate grievance in their society to move against Ralph. Richie was planning to move against Tony, and Tony made an official ruling after consulting with Silvio (his consigliere). So when Janice killed Richie first, Tony could 'officially' get it taken care of by Chris and Furio. If what happened here gets out, even being the Boss won't protect Tony. His own men would be allowed to kill him without retribution, and none of the other Families or Bosses would protest. Hence why Tony brings Chris alone and no other associate. This puts him in a very precarious situation.
I think too much is made of Tony "stopping" going over to Artie's house as though he didn't have "the human urge to do something". The precise opposite is true. He immediately jumps out of bed and starts getting dressed, before taking a few seconds to stop and think and realises that the rational thing is to phone for an ambulance. He did completely the right thing.
Season 4 is amazing, this is where the writing and pacing truly gains its footing. It feels like a 2 hour journey compressed to 55 mins. Next level stuff.
i’m sure it’s been said but please do what you can to not check out picture before the episode and also not read the description.. better for us!
This is the best show in terms of showing how burying your negative feelings doesn't just magically make them go away and they can erupt anytime in the future over something unrelated. Their conflict played out how conflicts happen in real life and not in a typical TV arc fashion. You have your initial conflict, life goes on but with occasional traces of those old feelings popping up, and then something else causes all of the buried feelings to bubble up. Tracee was always the heart of their conflict and it made a lot of sense that it book-ended it even if more obliquely than usual. "How anyone has selective empathy", most people have selective empathy. Theirs are just more narrow. Ralphie even brings up vegetarianism in the face of Tony's outrage over an animal dying. I don't see too many people agonizing everyday about where their stuff is coming from.
The fact that LM’s initial conclusion to this was “Ralph killed Tracee and Tony didn’t do a anything but now flips out just over a horse, appaling” was, I’m sorry to say it, kinda disgraceful considering how good they usually are at understanding characters. At this point it’s like they believe Tony is the second coming of Stalin. Of course the other opposite of treating Tony like a saint over him avenging Tracee and Pie’O’My is even worse (I’m looking at you, @Varus).
Tony killed Ralphie because of tracee David chase confirmed it "Tony had it right. But the thing is, when he was beating up on Ralphie for killing Pie-o-My, it was really about that girl who he killed, Tracee (Ariel Kiley). I really love how the show leaves it ambiguous with only gentle nods leading you to the “correct” answer like the photo of tracee in the end. I think David chase ultimately didn’t want to give us the viewer a reason to root on Ralphie death, it’s why they tried to have us sympathize with him earlier in the episode.
"She was a whoo-ore / She was a horse"
Btw, have LM mentioned when they might release the Godfather 2 reaction? I thought they were gonna do one movie a month. Since it's a sequel, it's like waiting for the next episode reaction and it's torturous lol
If I'm reading between the lines correctly, I think the political situaion in Serbia is eating up some time of theirs and they are putting it off. I fully support it.
Chris wielding a ‘cleaver’? Very observant, the sacred and the propane.
Michael Imperioli took Danny Baldwin to fuckin' acting school
When Ralphie arrives at the hospital he says "Please allow me to introduce myself." Later when speaking to Father Intantola, he says "Pleased to meet ya." These are both lines from Sympathy for the Devil, by the Rolling Stones. There are many, many other subtle nods to Ralphie being the Devil throughout the show. Goats are an image of Satan, and that goat was always around Pie-o-my. Ralphie is from Miami.... you know, below - where it's hot. There are many more of these subtleties that I never picked up on until a rewatch. Great writing.
Also: "Were you there when Jesus Christ had his moment of doubt and pain?"
Y'all have to find a way not to see the episode thumbnails for these old HBO shows, lol. They are just spoiler central; no idea why it's like that. I remember the episode Stringer dies in the Wire, the thumbnail was Omar with Mouzone which hasn't happened before. Ruins the suspense for no reason.
The worst ever was Netflix using Gus Fring as a thumbnail before he reappeared in Better Call Saul. You think these companies would learn by now.
you need a new mic, it appears to be broken. static noise
This episode is where I really started feeling sorry for Chris. I know that's not totally logical, but it's no wonder he's so fucked up and getting high all the time. They showed him cutting up Richie in Satriale's too but that was played for laughs. This episode actually makes you think about how insane it is. I also felt bad for Junior too. Asking an old man to fake dementia and joking about it is very cruel. Especially when he starts showing genuine signs at the end of the episode.
I mean, all of the guys went through this kind of shit, but it’s true that Chris (in my opinion at least) has a more sensitive side to him than most of the other mobsters and these actions affect him more deeply.
Season 4 is so good. I think it's my favourite overall
BTW Ralphie mentions he has a kid named Justin all the way back in season 3 episode 4 (the rape episode).
It was a *fuckin'* horse
In the thumbnail, Milena looks like The Scream painting
Good riddance Ralph! ✌️
Kind of fucking dumb for HBO to show the fight in the thumbnail? That’s multiple times now the events of an episode of a HBO show (The Wire too) has been spoiled before watching for these two.
They didn't show the kitchen fight, it was the scene where Tony shoves Ralphie in the hospital.
Milena's face in that thumbnail! 😂