The Sopranos 3x07 Reaction

The best Carmela episode of the show; so significant in that she has the mirror held up to her situation...

I forgot how insanely disgusting Paulie was when he was trying to justify himself for sniffing Adrianna's underwear, holy fuck

Carmela: "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in"

How Tony got that arrogrant doctor Kennedy to give Junior more care was quite righteous to me...it was long overdue for someone to remind him that there might be a bee on his hat...but don't touch him..that was too much..and so just as I was about to wave my Team Tony flag, I can't :(

The scene between Carmela and her therapist is one of my favorite scenes in the entire series. The advice he gives to Carmela is steeped in Jewish philosophy, and was specifically written as a Jewish character with a Jewish actor (They first approached a different Jewish actor who declined because he wasn't "the right Jew" for the role and they switched to Sully Boyar). Livingston, where he has his office, has a large Jewish population. Jewish philosophy has a very different perspective on "sin" than Christianity. "Sin" doesn't exist as a thing in and of itself, no action (NO action) is INHERENTLY sinful. It's all about what the impact is on the world. Intention is almost irrelevant. Did you hurt somebody? It was bad. Did you help somebody? It was good. The classic Jewish story to explain it goes like this: A rich man goes to a rabbbi and says "Rabbi, I want to do something good with my money, so I want to build an orphanage." The rabbi congratulates him, and says that this is a wonderful idea and he will get much applause and praise from the community. A few days later the rabbi bumps into the rich man and asks how the orphanage is coming along. Here the rich man says that he thought about it, and he realized that the only reason he was going to build the orphanage was for the praise and accolades. Since he didn't have truly righteous intentions, he decided not to do it. To which the rabbi said "Do you think the children care what your intentions are? BUILD THE ORPHANAGE!" Here, the psychiatrist points out that it doesn't matter how guilty Carmela feels about, or how much soul-searching she does, as long as she is enabling Tony in his crimes then she is a part of the problem. The "Why" doesn't really matter. And he says that he can't force her to do anything, but he can tell her straight-up.

After The Wire talk in the intro, have to recommend The Corner from HBO. It's a miniseries, only 6 episodes. I reckon you'd like all David Simon's shows, but it's the one most similar to The Wire. Same locations, a lot of the same actors and it's a true story. It was critically acclaimed and it's success no doubt paved the way for The Wire (it came out in 2000, Wire was 2002). Yous would love it

For the sake of argument, imagine 90% of Tony's income has resulted in somebody suffering. Some kind of blood money, blood shoes, blood cars etc.. The other 10% would be legitimate income from businesses he owns.. I think that Carmela subconsciously skews these figures in a way to justify their success and lifestyle. However, I also think this is completely understandable, and to be honest, most people would do similar in her shoes. It's hard to come to terms with something like that I don't think Carmela is avoiding asking the question, or that she is aware of everything and completely happy with Tony's immoral behaviour. I think she just puts a heavy weight on the few moral (or neutral) things Tony does do, to keep herself from seeing that he's a nasty bastard

They really did strike gold pairing Gandolfini with Edie Falco. She really has some incredible scenes. The therapist scene stayed with me a long time after I saw it, and I think it’s one of the best scenes in any season. Both writing and acting are off the charts.

"50g's?" "Yes"

Glad ye got a Carmela heavy episode after painfully sitting through that last one lol

dissapointed :) main plot about Junior in episode and you didnt mention him in the summary at all xD . at least tell us would you like as a uncle Junior or Tony soprano ;)

I'm surprised nobody has posted the Mr Williams quote "stoopid-a fahkin game" yet but that's for the youtube comments I suppose.

Seeing Adriana giddy with excitement at being given the shoes is like a pseudo-flashback for Carmela & Tony's relationship. While Carmela's immediate family is less mob-connected, Tony was brought up in it and has always been a gangster, and there's no way she didn't know who he is. We don't have her explicitly stating "hey Tony I love all this free loot you get from being a gangster" in the way that Ade says it to Chris, but it's clearly the same situation. Twenty years later the shine has worn off, all she can do to assuage her guilt is to give it to a "good cause" by forcing Tony to donate to the university.

The way Carmela and Tony throw money at their problems reminds me of Walter White. They try to legimitise the criminal lifestyle by funnelling the money to the right places. The therapist refusing to take 'blood money' kind of underlines that.

Also, interesting that the therapist brought up Tony's possible redemption in the form of self-reflection in prison. Tony Sirico, Paulie's actor, was an alleged real life mob associate. Went to prison, and credits discovering an ex-con acting troupe for turning his life around.

I know Paulie is a fan favorite, but I remember this episode being the first time I started disliking him. Funnily enough, he told Christopher when he's being made that he can always go to Tony for any problem he has, then chastises Christopher for doing exactly that in this episode. Pretty much shows the hollowness of this "family" and the bond they're supposed to have. Carmela's story is definitely the highlight of this episode. And I do agree that while the therapist is mostly right, he was being a little naive when he told Carmela to take the two kids and leaving while also refusing to take any more blood money. A middle aged housewife with little to no experience would find it hard to get a job that pays enough to take care of herself and two kids. But otherwise, the therapist is the most morally sound character we've had in the show. I'll leave you girls with two fascinating professional takes on that scene. http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2007/08/the_other_soprano_psychiatrist.html http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/tv_club/features/2001/the_sopranos_week_7_season_3/psychotherapy_just_cant_help_these_folks.html

I don’t know where the Carmela hate comes from in the fanbase. I love the character, AND I would say she’s complicit in the heinous actions Tony commits. She’s so well written

I'd have to disagree that the psychiatrist was being naive about Carmela being able to leave. I think he saw through her when she started talking about what it would take to separate, justifications and excuses to continue the life she's comfortable in. To me, she reads like a classic addict who knows their lifestyle is destructive but hasn't fully made that internal commitment to change, she's still looking for an easier way out, trying to talk herself out of it, and in the end, we see that indeed she is not ready to leave. The weight of her guilt and suffering must be more than her selfish desires and that point has not been reached.

I think you guys are spot on about the complicity discussion but also that the therapist's words are correct but significantly easier said than done. For reference, Carmela first mentioned the feelings of guilt about blood money and also that Tony is a "good" guy all the way back in the college episode in season 1 with the priest. This was always an underlying part of her character. And if it's a question of how Carmela can be married for decades while knowing she isn't in the moral right, it's in line with real life psychology and even how Tony's own guilt flows: it comes and goes and daily life comes in the way. Not everyone is thinking daily about where their food or clothes comes from if they're thinking about what a bad day at work they've had or some relationship problem they're having that week. It's not going to be a continuous stream of guilt, especially when there's heavy cognitive dissonance and rationalization going on. Remember what Chris said about "arcs" all the way back in season one. This show does not really want to follow traditional sequential arcs. Carmela's and Tony's guilt will sometimes be a big plot, sometimes only a small reminder (like Tony issues with Ralphie about Tracee only lightly mentioned in this episode) and sometimes the show just deals with other life problems. It's follows a slice of life model. Carmela was never a moral character to root for. Melfi is the biggest one and the audience surrogate, especially after her moral choice in the rape episode established her as the one character who made the hard choice over the easy one. She's the one character that can possibly help Tony or any of these people (I mean idk how honest she thought Carmela's therapist was going to be here but it gave Carmela a chance to make the right decision) even if she's still flawed, unprofessional and hypocritical. If this show is a series of moral tests, she passed one of the biggest. Hard to imagine Tony or Carmela making that same decision in the same situation. It's also interesting that they made the therapist Carmela saw, unambiguously correct about the moral choice, but still had echos of some boomer type sentiments that Tony shares. His comment and disdain for modern psychiatry is in line with Tony belittling therapy. He says the type of things about "shopping malls and ethnic parades" is also in line with how Tony views general americans: loud, whiny and not Gary Copper, the "strong and silent type". And his tone towards childhoods is in direct contrast to Melfi constantly trying to broach the topic with Tony about his own. It's such an interesting contrast to put in such a correct character.

Here's the thing - I don't think any of the main cast of this show can be considered a "good person", Carmella included. She's not a good person, is she as bad as some of the others of course not, but she is 100% aware of what Tony does for a living and how he makes his money and she's benefited from it for 20 years. I never hated Carmella but she did annoy me with her "holier than thou" attitude and her pretentiousness. I love that the shrink she saw not only called her out on it but also those viewers that see Carmella as some kind of victim, which she isn't. I get that LM are trying to latch on to anyone on this show they can root for and I understand that, but the mental gymnastics they go through to try and defend Carmella is hilarious to me.

Just want to point out two things. 1. Carmela tells Tony on the driveway that he pays money to Angie (pussy's wife) and however many other "widows," so she is aware he is dead. 2. You two are incredibly thoughtful and intelligent with your analysis, and things like Chrissy's backstory, Carmela's etc are all coming down the line, which I think shows how prescient you two can be.

I think my issue with Carmela is that she knows what she signed up for. Like, Tony is awful but Carmela knows. And as far as mob husbands go, Tony is unfortunately on the better end of the spectrum. Of course, it doesn't absolve Tony of his behavior towards her and doesn't invalidate her desire to leave. Such an interesting character.

It's funny how different people interpret this show because Edie Falco is amazing, but I HATED Carmela, lol. Just comes off as a holier than thou hypocrite to me. Part of that might be my male perspective, Interested to see how your opinion of her evolves positively or negatively.

I love that you used the phrase ignorant bliss when discussing Carmela. The most memorable use of that phrase for me is from the movie The Matrix, said by.... dun dun dunnnnn.... the actor that plays Ralphie. https://youtu.be/OLv6ycYcpGI?feature=shared

This was a great episode. One of the best episodes of the show. This is Carmela's most crucial scene. She is confronted with an unadulterated assessment of her situation, accompanied with a sincere ethical evaluation and a pragmatic solution of and for her problem. It totally exposes Carmella for who she really is with her false piety and materialism. She lacks the courage and the capability to do the right thing. The actor playing the therapist is outstanding. He gives Carmela no quarter whatsoever- she tries to justify her actions and steer the conversation to a resolution she'd prefer and he's having none of it. His take on her situation is dead on, as is his advice. She understands it completely and consciously chooses to ignore it. This is her moral event horizon.

Carmela's therapy session with the old psychiatrist is one of my absolute favorite scenes in the entire show. What a brutal splash of cold water…

"Take the children, what's left of them" Powerful words from the doctor

"One thing you can never say... that you haven't done a movie reaction"

Yeah, the therapy session with Carmella is one of the best scenes in the show.

after yesterday's surprise, you can post at any time

I assumed the Godfather was going to be in lieu of a Sopranos reaction. We're being spoiled with great reactions.

You gotta bee onna you hat

This was one of my favourites episodes in the series.

To be fair we got the Godfather reaction so it’s worth it. Thanks for the early Christmas gift btw <3 :))

I was a kid in those days, it's been so long