Deltarune Chapter 5 Pacifist Ending

Also, ORANGE! I have a totally different take for her: she's young, she's headstrong, she's clearly capable, but sees herself as Asgore's protege and wants to prove herself so badly that she often gets just a bit out over her skis, and though she'd never admit it she's secretly quite insecure. And above all, she is brave. She's so brave she would chase a villain straight into a volcano even though she knows she's already dehydrated. She would follow a potential kidnapper straight into a Dark World and start blasting, even if she didn't know what the place was or what kind of being was attacking or what was even happening at all. Orange is Asgore's mentee and ultimately successor as police chief; in another universe she's Asgore's head of the Royal Guard. She's Undyne, all the way. It's actually so cute and heartwamring to me that he talks about her so much that her personality is one of those manifested in the Flower King Dark World, but it's ESPECIALLY adorable to me that of all of the flowers the one with Undyne's personality is the youngest — yet feistiest — lil' baby of them all.

I loved your talk on the Flowers as characters from Asgore's life and have some thoughts of my own to add! I'm 100% with everything you said — literally no notes — on Aqua and Seth. Asriel hadn't even entered my mind but the second you said it, it totally clicked for me! Like you, Green is somewhat of an enigma to me as to what she represents, but I think your take makes sense. Rudy as Flowery is also perfect and obvious like you said. Given that the point of Chapter 5 is to, since dark clouds are forming on the horizon, "let's not look there for now," I think it's fitting that the main deuteragonist is a flower with the personality of someone who, despite being obviously terminally ill, goes out of his way to put on a brave face, show up to cheer for his people, decorate the town, and always deflect away from the sad stuff with a joke, a wink, and a smile. As for Yellow and Blue, I like what someone in chat said about them representing Asgore and Toriel, respectively, in their married/adult lives. I think it's quite appropriate that the two of them are given the most story time besides Flowery, especially given this dynamic of mirroring the two most important people in Kris's life both on their own and on an interpersonal level. Asgore's key trait is, like Yellow, the pursuit of justice. He wants to set things right, to make sure everything is in its place, to protect the innocent and beautiful, to make the world around him better for those he cares for and is responsible for. It's what motivates him day-by-day, it's what makes him a good person, AND it's what causes his biggest follies. It strikes me that between Undertale and Deltarune, Asgore is the same character in both stories, and it is mainly the situations that he finds himself navigating that differ. In both cases, his story is driven by a single-minded obsession with righting a wrong that he feels responsible for, unable to see as a result how his actions are affecting those around him as well as himself. As Toriel scolds Asgore for at the end of Undertale, he gets so caught up in the melodrama of delivering justice, punishing evil, being the hero and so on that he makes choices that, setting aside the fact that killing children is wrong, don't even effectively advance his *own* goals. Here, as Yellow mirrors likely from hearing Asgore's own self-talk in the flower shop, Asgore's obsession with setting thing right, combined with the blame that he carries for himself, manifests in wholly self-destructive ways — Yellow, by being so over-the-top ("Welp, I'm gonna go find some way to blow myself up now!"), serves as the narrative's caricature of Asgore showing how ridiculous this line of thinking is. And when it's not directed inward, it still hurts those he means to protect: the best example of this is for me the most jarring character moment in the chapter. When Asgore physically throws Kris out of the Dark World, it throws the player off because it doesn't mesh with Asgore's caring nature, and it's intensified by the conversation we just saw — crucially, from *Kris's perspective* — where Flowery insinuates that Asgore will choose this Dark World over his own family. Even though we know that this isn't the case, and that Asgore just wants Kris out because the Dark World is dangerous, I think it's worth taking a moment to see this moment from Kris's perspective. Although Asgore's intent is to protect his child here, he's not *seeing* Kris in any aspect. He literally bum-rushes and rams his kid out through the front door, without giving any attention to how disorienting this might be. He doesn't give Kris a single word about why he is doing this, why the Dark World is unsafe. He still at the end of the hasn't given a thought to why Kris would be in this Dark World in the first place, and the second Kris is out the front door, Asgore returns to the Dark World to continue his investigation, without any understanding of what caused this situation or how Kris might react to it. If he had, like he apologizes for in the end, he might have realized that just because he had removed Kris in that instant, did not mean that Kris was safe, that Kris was liable to go right back in through the back door which Asgore didn't even lock. It's as if he's completed "Task B: get child out of Dark World," and immediately switches back to Task A and his grand mystery investigation. Asgore's dream ideal of justice and what should happen makes him oblivious to what is actually happening to the people he rules over. But, Asgore is not the only Dreemurr, he's not the only dreamer, and he's not the only person who escapes into a fantasy-land while ignoring reality... Blue is an empath. He cares about treating people with kindness, with respect, with integrity; he always knows just what to say and is able to make everybody around him feel better. He's a grounding presence, and when Yellow is first reunited with him we can see that Blue is a person who feels like Home. He even is able to appreciate Green's cooking on a deeper level than most, as we see in their breakroom scene. He is NOT, however, able to appreciate that Green needs the two dollars that he borrowed from them — no, in fact, when increasingly directly confronted with this debt, he simply tries even harder to ignore it. At the start of the final sequence, Blue speaks with high-minded, flowery (literally) language about a contest of love — it's really nice, even helpful in some ways for Susie and co to feel better about what's happening, but at the same time it's a bit of deflection from the reality of the situation that these two groups are about to have to kill each other. I only have these two relatively simple examples of this pattern, because Blue, while grand, doesn't exactly get the most attention from the story in terms of fleshing out. But I actually think this might be by design, mirroring another character who makes a big impact on the player but is not actually involved in much of their journey. Toriel, who, like Asgore, mirrors the same traits across stories, appears twice in the main storyline of Undertale. At the very beginning, we see her caring for the fallen child's immediate needs while pushing away the reality that ultimately what they will need is to leave this place. She clings so tightly to the fantasy that things can be perfect if they just stay here, that the only way for the player to break this fantasy is to force a physical confrontation. At the very end of the (true route) story, she acknowledges that she has still been making the same mistake by staying holed up at Home, worrying about the player instead of realizing that she was always capable of leaving, that the player still needs help, and that she was able to help this whole time. She finally follows the player's trail across the underground herself and smacks some sense into Asgore, averting the confrontation she felt the need to hide from by simply doing something, which she could have done *at any time* and six children may still be alive; hell, even we could have used her fire magic against Muffet. In Deltarune, her version of escapism post-divorce is much more realistic/relatable and thus much more sad, at least to me. She clings to nostalgia: in the early chapters especially she seems to view Kris as though he is still a young child; and, while this is a thing that parents do, I believe you Ed noted that in doing so she is also ignoring some real needs of Kris's as a teenager — particularly some signs that they are not adjusting well to adolescence or to the major disruptions that have happened. Even Susie notices Toriel's inattentiveness: in Chapter 3 she slept through not only Dark World being created right next to her, but a literal break-in and attempted kidnapping where her TV was destroyed (does she even mention this later on?). Then, the next day, Susie and Kris return home to find her wasted out of her gourd and completely oblivious to the fact that these two kids, let alone that they nearly died fighting the Knight, could have gotten sick or hurt or stuck somewhere in the storm that Toriel knew she left them in. And this isn't to say that she doesn't deserve a date night — it's natural and it's good that she wants to feel nice and enjoy herself and forget for a moment the embarrassment her husband just put her and Kris through after church. Similarly she gives an understandable for not checking on the kids; it *is* good that she wanted Kris and Susie to have fun and to continue building this friendship. But there are things that need to happen and that need to be attended to, and while she is great at tending to people's immediate emotional needs and making them feel grounded and loved, Toriel's fatal flaw here is that oppositely to Asgore's obsession over what must be done, she is unwilling to engage, especially after the unnamed tragedy and the divorce, with the emotional fallout or with the unresolved potential dangers to the townchildrens' safety. Toriel *is* good. She is moral and she is giving and she treats people well. But she tends to hold her goodness close to her, wrap herself in the sweetness of it, let you snuggle next to her and the warm embrace of her goodness. But she is *not* active with it; if anything she retreats from taking an active role when it's not easy. I think this is why Susie seems to have started to view her as unreliable over these past few chapters. What's great about Yellow and Blue in this chapter is that they are still together (sorry divorced goat couple). This allows us as the viewer to see through Kris's perspective how well the two aspects of their parents' personalities balance each other out and compliment each other as a family unit, and it helps put in context what Kris is missing or what some of the problems are with their real-world situation and environment (not at all to say that Azzy and Tori need to get back together). Yellow's justice without Blue's integrity can turn into harm, while integrity without justice can turn into neglect.

Honestly think with the context of Asgore's line, a chronological view of all of Asgore's interactions with Flowery is super interesting. Asgore's mood downturn+focus on dark world stuff loses some of the 'playing along' cordiality when Asgore becomes aware Kris and Susie are in the Dark World, but I'd also argue more pointedly in the two instances Flowery does shit without Asgore's permission (taking Asgore to Flower Castle with the petals/wind after seeing their child is there/possibly in danger+ blowing the personal notes away). Asgore describes Flowery as at times seeming like a lovely person still, and has the entire 'why are you still here' thing as well as Flowery's response to 'what does Asgore think' being "i don't disagree" to begin with... I think there's some really interesting blank points/conversations that Had to have happened while the fun gang was doing platforming, even if they never showed to Flowery Asgore /only/ cared about the truth. At minimum a "don't take me places without permission + why is my kid here" and a "listen I've been trying to get your kid to leave and keep them safe" convo (the latter bit relates to missable dialogue, idk if there's plans to cover easter eggs/alt dialogue). + I'd also say there's some really interesting like. manipulative in what seems to be 'well-intended' stuff with Flowery too. he's a little fucked up, it's great.