Update on Frost and Cisco

I was really excited for Second Wind. As an organization, as a community, as a collection of creators. Even if the signal to noise ratio was a little low, the likes of Ramblomatic, Cold Take, and Design Delve made supporting the group a great choice. But...here we are. The promises of open lines of communication seem great...until you take a moment to consider how that was literally supposed to be the point of Second Wind and what it's here to fix. And yet, the organization isn't even that old yet and you're already driving away creators with that lack of openness and communication. While also the defenses of the mismanagement from your biggest creators amount to, "I dunno. He's nice to me. It's probably fine." I'll stick around...for now. Give it all a chance to be fixed. But this? This is setting off warning bells already. And that's not a good sign.

You didn't really respond to all the claims Frost did in his video, such as did you change the info about your earnings from Pateron that you published to your supporters? Furthermore, if Nick has a past of mismanaging his employees (something many can relate to is being mistreated by their bosses), everyone answering "he's nice to me so I don't care" doesn't really paint a great picture about your team. Especially Yatzee who holds most of the power saying that he doesn't care because his relationship with Nick is fine is utterly disappointing. I supported you from the start, even did a Patreon for this very purpose but I'm also stopping my support until you really address this topic, or you wont.

Just joined and gave you what support I can manage at this time. Keep up the good work. You rule Jack, keep up the beautiful work you hack fraud :P

OK, this is extremely disturbing. Again, I have no means to objectively judge to what extent what Frost presented is correct and not fabricated or cherry-picked, but at this point I need to see how the other SWG owners react. It's not to deny Nick the opportunity to defend himself - he definitely should address the issues and share his side of the story. But if Nick is at fault here, he shouldn't speak for SWG since he's potentially not representing their interests, just his own. And if Frost is wrong and Nick is the victim here, SWG still needs to show that they have proper leadership and management besides Nick - otherwise, Nick is either a single point of failure for their leadership structure, or effectively a CEO.

"Ive become accustomed to a certain lifestyle" Is not how you run a business.

https://youtu.be/MbPiP_eR3gQ?si=6zgd7C1tHEwIENz6

I have no means of finding out which side of this argument is closer to truth. But I know that SW lost 2 valuable employees - to me, Frost accounted for like 30% of this channel's value. That by itself is a failure. I don't know the full scope of the drama. But I know that any parting of ways that makes this much noise is a failure. Especially considering how much this situation reminds me of SW's exodus from The Escapist. I'm not going to make any rash decisions or demand reparations in blood. But you guys need to know that a big part of what made SW's brand appeal to me is opposing corporate mindset of overpowered management making inscrutable mistakes with no accountability, and regaining my trust will require you to prove that your idea of creator-friendly co-op isn't just lip service. And having to find another Frost is going to be a enough of a punishment. Ironic, considering that I recall Nick describing that having to find Frost was a consequence od some out-of-touch manager's decision to find another Yahtzee.

Eek, may I suggest you guys have a round table between yourselves and Frost immediately. This is about to get really dirty (see Frost's twitter), really quickly. Everyone in SWG as well as Frost (he should.not. Come back in any capacity), need to sit down, admit their wrongs, understand how they happend, put in corrective procedures and move on. Transparency to patrons means sweet f all while this sh*t goes on in the background. I've quit my subscription but I truly hope/want SWG to succeed, so do the hard work on yourselves now and bury this crap otherwise it'll bury you and everything you've achieved so far.

I'll be withdrawing my support as a consequence of this.

Adam Srayi does good work. Just sayin’.

I had high hopes for this project, I'd like to wish everyone still involved all the best. You can do it!

I can't get over the amount of right wing/alt-right grifters defending/supporting Frost on his Twitter rant. Absolutely grim. The rest of you at SW still have my support though ^^

Just gonna increase my pledge just to spite all those whose brains where rotted by Twitter. Also nice dropping second wind at the slightest sight of problems. How do you guys function in real relationships?

Not enough, I want direct answers to every single point made by frost

I thought it weird that Frost never seemed to include himself in many things. He never did D&D and only guest starred in the podcasts. It now seems to me that he might have been keeping one foot in the going out door. I enjoy the content and environment Second Wind fosters. I enjoy Frost’s thoughtful videos. It’s a shame things seem to have divided roughly. Hopefully good things come from a bad break up for both.

GGs.. im out.. I pitched 10 bones a month since you guys started this gig. This news didnt sit right with me. Oligarchy's never work for this exact reason.. Not hearing any confidence from this guy after his partner just smeared his reputation across the internet. He just copy and pasted the post he left on discord. Cisco left because he knows what he's worth. You dont let your head of sales go after he hits every sales record since the beginning. He resigns. This company has no backbone. Yahtzee's an artist and has a friendship with Nick. Him saying "I dont want to be part of the drama" just tells me he's not willing to strain a friendship in order to keep his business afloat. Im out. Remember kids: If youre starting a business, never mix business with friendship.

Pretty immature post from Frost and a bit reckless to try and torpedo a place where your friends work regardless what you think of your boss. Hopefully this will lead to more openness amongst the staff and everyone can get back to creating great videos for us all to enjoy.

I'm very sad to see Frost go, he was one of the reasons I had such faith in second wind as an enterprise. I hope both second wind and Frost can maintain relations and continue to produce the content I enjoy so much.

HALF the reason I subscribe to you is gone... Just saying... Red Flag, Red Flag.

It's funny that the latest Windbreaker title was "How to (not) do an ending". Seems like someone didn't take that advice.

Many of us visit this platform primarily for the entertaining videos, not for controversy. It's important for this new company to avoid getting caught up in rumors or public displays of immaturity, as these can lead to misunderstandings, alienate supporters, and harm relationships within the broader video game development community. Please maintain a professional environment so we can all continue to enjoy the funny videos we love. Thank you.

Where did he post the Salaries? I haven't seen that?

all I know is, I will continue to support both Frost and Second Wind.

I think people need to chill out before making such rash decisions to take sides, cancel pledges etc. You read a few posts and think you know the whole story. Be sensible. Sit on it, wait for more information to come to light and then come to a formed decision.

Frost was completely out of line for posting salaries and for his X outburst. If you watch/listen to the content, continue to support SW financially or there will be no content. Supporters already openly using this as an excuse to stop funding SW is a pretty low blow

This is just a business disagreement, don't let it break up the friendship you all have. I pay only £1 for support and enjoy Frost's content. We'll see how things go.

A lot of what Frost said struck me as insanely entitled, but I definitely want to echo the crowd here and say everyone vague posting at each other is really not it as a paying contributor to this. If you can legally share more information as soon as possible it'd definitely be appreciated.

A bunch of people left "previous company/site" due to how things were being handled, it shouldn't surprise anyone that less than a year later people are doing the same thing. It was fun while it lasted.

I think it would be cool if there was a regular video by a woman.

Nah, this ain't it. Frost made specific claims about how the company is being mismanaged, and you failed to address any of his concerns. Sounds like that's par for the course. I was originally going to stay a patron, but now I'll be withdrawing my support, specifically because of this BS response.

As a viewer, I... frankly do not care about the internals of the company or how things are being run. I don't have the energy to follow the inner workings of Second Wind, much less all the other companies I patronize. I'll be honest, I'm primarily just here for FR/SR, but my Patreon support is worth that to me. All I really care about is that the employees own the company and reap the rewards of their labor, rather than the enterprise being owned by do-nothing capitalist pigs. There's always going to be disagreements and internal strife in any organization. Be adults. Talk to each other. Don't try to marshal public support against each other; that's just childish.

As soon as I read the words "tanked our youtube revenue" in Frost's letter I completely checked out. Y'all have explained on many occasions why youtube revenue cannot be relied on and I agree completely with the direction of ignoring it completely and treating anything you do get from it as a bonus. I enjoyed the Cold Take episodes at first, but lately they've just felt bitter and resentful so I'll be honest I don't think I mind that they'll be going away. I will continue to support Second Wind and your vision to create a truly sustainable company that doesn't rely on the fickle whims of the youtube algorithm.

I think it would be helpful to understand more about the specifics of Frost's allegations, and the specifics of your rebuttals. Until then it's very difficult to make heads or tails of this, especially as someone who is not on Twitter and is not 'in the loop'.

I would also like to see Frost come back. If it's a genuine disagreement about the financial approach to the company, sometimes it is better for people to part ways and pursue their own vision. But I wouldn't like it to be a matter of management style.

I would like to see a response to Frost's comments from the Second Wind board, not from Nick. Having observed Nick's immature behavior on podcasts and streams, I feel like it warrants a response. The above response feels dismissive and flippant in a way that does nothing to address Frost's comments.

Having read both Frost's twitter post and this post, I still don't know what's going on. I have no understanding of how youtube's algorithm works nor the factuality on Frost's statement nor on this statement. With that said, 1) I wish both all parties the very best of luck. 2) If someone is willing to resign to make a point, assess the factuality of the person's statement and discuss, as a whole, whether or not it's a valid concern, then if it's possible to address at this time and/or does it need to be addressed in the future, then if the solutions proposed is possible, then if there are alternatives and/or compromises, then steps moving forward. Even if the concern is silly, it's worthwhile going through these steps with sincerity. As any lack of which means unwillingness to change and/or people not being heard. 3) Keep an email box and/or maybe even a kanban (like we use in agile software development) of concerns that people can submit to. Like a suggestions box. Maybe both. One anonymous and one not. But the reason for this is to have a record of suggestions/concerns/questions that are not only logged, but has a record and/or archive of whether or not they're addressed and the address in question. Hell, I'll set one up for you guys and/or teach you guys how to use it if you guys don't know. 4) If or when things are properly addressed, there's nothing to say you can't reach out to Frost and ask him to come back. One of the mark of a good company is its willingness to correct itself, make amends and apologize. A lot of the gaming companies we all criticize does exactly not that. They will make a mistake, double down as to "not look weak" and push forward with bridged burnt. Be the better company and, if what he said had a point, take measures, correct, or even talk to him and discuss what changes can be done for him to comeback. Even if it's a foundational change. Just the fact that you're willing to consider it/hear him out shows a lot of good will. Maybe what he said about youtube revenue and sponsors is true. Maybe it's outdated info. Maybe he just has a different approach than yours. Maybe it can be both. Maybe your or his vision doesn't have to be the only one in leading the company. Lastly. I don't know if these will help but I'm writing it here because they're common pitfalls that everyone needs a reminder of every now and then. 1) As a leader, your role isn't to command your team. Your role is to serve your team. You work to make sure they can do their job. You work for them, they don't work for you. 2) If you're overwhelmed, remember that you're not alone. You can ask for help. 3) Don't be afraid to open up to people about concerns. Talk about your feelings and your fears and what you're excited about. Yeah, showing insecurity can give people fear, but if your goal about it is to be constructive, i.e. find ways to progress, get a better perspective than what the palantir in our minds likes to show us, get advice, that should dissuade irrational fears and push forth a feeling of hope. And take it from a Taiwanese. Sometimes, the choices you have are only hope and utter destruction/literal genocide. And, although it's hard, that hope is the strongest weapon you have. 4) If someone's under performing, give them plenty of notice and a reasonable path forward. Maybe they're legitimately not doing their job. But you wouldn't be doing yours if you didn't try to address things. Good luck and my very best of wishes to all parties involved.

Man, Cold Take was my favorite show. I used to look forward to it and get excited whenever a new vid came out. I liked the way he criticized the toxicity of the video game industry and the vibe he had while doing so. Design Delve and Fully/Semi-Ramblomatic are the only things holding me here. That being said, I don't use Discord or Twitter, Im not aware of all the deets and the lore but the letter of resignation Frost wrote is very problematic. I want you all to know that I don't make a lot of money and the little bit I give to SW is because I believe in the vision but if the hard-earned money I am donating is being handled poorly, like Frost mentioned, I will take my money and donate it to another creator.

I hope this letter to Second Wind's viewership is sincere, as Frost's letter of resignation paints a somewhat different, heated picture of the situation. Now, I'm open to hearing both sides of the story, and I understand that creating a business from scratch is a costly and exhausting venture - not to mention the turbulent drama that immediately preceded it - so I am sure the situation is a lot more complicated and nuanced than what either Nick or Frost can portray in a few brief paragraphs. I am not judging or condemning anyone at this point with how few details we possess on the matter. However, both this letter and Frost's betray apparent issues in communication and business models that need to be addressed. I do hope to see these issues resolved in the future to prevent any possibility of this company devolving into the same unsustainable, toxic environment the company's own members had spent years railing against. This team deserves better, and I think I speak for their fanbase when I say we all want this to work out for this talented group. That is why we are backing this venture in the first place, and will continue to do so until given explicit reasons not to. A house divided cannot stand, so Second Wind needs to find the hammers and nails to fix it before it collapses. That's all I'm going to say on this matter.

Frost's comments concern me and I'm not particularly reassured by this post, as it seems like some points haven't been properly addressed. For example, I'd like to know more about these 'content viewership goals' and 'revenue strategies' - these aren't reassuring phrases to hear. Seeing what your financial ins and out are doesn't give us insight on what's being pushed for. A huge amount of Second Wind's good will comes from the perception of the group defying the poor behavior and culture of many corporations related to the gaming industry, and we need clear reassurance that the Second Wind group will not fall prey to anything similar. Please show us transparency on this front as well.

Just sending wishes of peace, love, and happiness to everyone. I'll keep backing y'all for two major reasons: Company transparency and the content you put out. Things are never perfect all the time, and this does suck. Again, making wishes for calmer waters ahead as we sail on. Thanks for all you do.

Hang in there, y’all

Frost was the first person on the channel I watched outside Yahtzee, and seeing him go is a big red flag for me. Wish him and SW both the best of luck in the future, but to be crystal clear, Yahtzee is the rainmaker here for me. He goes, I go.

For someone who is not on any twitters or discords, I have no idea what is going on. For those who are involved, I’m sure it’s a big deal (big enough to quit a job), but considering that I could go completely without knowing what is going on and STILL be a SW member (been watching Yahtzee since the early ZP days) means that it can’t be that big a deal. I know, everybody has their drama, but I saw none of it. Not a bit. Nothing behind the scenes, nada. So from my perspective, a successful well-paid employee just quit randomly. Maybe Frost had a good reason to leave, but I’ve been out of a job for two months now and I’m putting out dozens of applications per week. I can’t imagine anything being so bad at my job that the boss tweeting would make me quit. Maybe that’s because I’ve been living off of savings for two months. And I’m STILL A MEMBER. Heck, is Frost’s job open? I can do video reads.

That’s disappointing. I really enjoy Frost. Good luck to him and all.

The travel expenses are a huge number in your expenses. I can see the point there. Why is that necessary?

I didn’t know about any drama before this post, but man, there’s a lot of stuff social media really doesn’t like about Nick. And I don’t mean the Twitter fights (though that’s probably not a professional thing to do as a CEO, IMO). 🤔

I have to say I think Cold Take would vary as a decent fit for the channel’s overall tone from week to week for me. I think there should be a creator who speaks about the industry, the business of the industry, and capitalism at large but it appears to be difficult to find one who doesn’t rub me personally the wrong way eventually. It’s odd that The Escapist lineage produced two of those but I’m going to chalk that up more to coincidence than anything.

Presumably Cold Take is leaving. Is Chronicle also leaving? Wish the best for both SW and Frost, regardless of conflict between you.

While i dont want to be part of the hate mob against second wind, but, i'd like to hear from the other important figures at second wind to see what they think about all this. This is clearly a Frost vs Nick problem, and i dont want to make a decision about what i think of the situation until i heard more than the two viewpoints

This is unfortunate, but not especially surprising - running a business is hard, and running a business composed of your friends is harder still. Running a business composed of a bunch of creatives who are friends is the final boss of all businesses. Creative labor is some of the most rewarding work you can do, but also the most frustrating because you have a vision and when you’re successful, it’s easy to be confident that your vision is the “correct” one for an organization. This is why bands break up! It happens! I don’t pretend to know exactly what transpired here, because only Frost and the Second Wind team know for sure, but to me the simplest explanation is the unsatisfying “creative differences” one. Occam’s razor, folks.

I haz a sad.

Sorry to see him go and I hope he finds what he is looking for. He has a lot of talent. However, talking shit of your previous colleagues is always a bad look in my opinion. Unless Nick kicked his dog or stole his GF, I think he could have just said "hey I just don't feel this group anymore" and peaced out. I'll still follow him and I'll still be a Patreon here. His exit is rather unprofessional though.

I’m just here for Yahtzee so I’ve got no dog in this fight.

Bruh, if THATS the goodbye message than you are blind to not see anything wrong beforehand.

Hope yall manage well without. I wasn't really into his content nor did I ever feel his perspectives meshed well with the other members of the crew. I am surprised he's going scorched earth though.

Love the whole team. Bummed that frost left but the support he is getting from bigoted grifters like smashjt or gigabear tells me that second wind group is in the right. Hopefully frost will denounce their support and go a third way.

Said it in discord but might as well put it here as well. Frost's parting comments are really concerning and I'd like to get more info on what the "different expectations" were if at all possible. That said, Jack's comments in discord in regard to the team being aware of and disagreeing with Frost's vision and their willingness to call a vote to fire Nick if they believe he's doing harm to the group is heartening. I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for more information from both the 2W team and Frost in hopes of getting a more complete picture here.

Disappointing to hear, but I'll be honest Cold Take wasn't really my thing. Also poor form to smear in a twitter rant without any apparent receipts, and trying to drag Yahtzee into it. Pretty sure he has his own voice

Okay, just to be clear, there is obviously an issue here. First, one of your forward facing people just walked out an lit things on fire on the way out, and one of your control level staff has been in a controversy in recent memory. That means, regardless of the real story, something is terribly wrong. Perhaps the staff not involved with these issues should investigate what's actually happening?

Seems like lots of folks taking sides. I know no one from Second Wind and I don't know why it happened. Was Frost right? Was he wrong? I don't know. None of us do. I enjoy Second Wind and I enjoy Frost. I'm not happy he's leaving, but I hope both find what they're looking for.

I like Frost and his videos, but as a complete outsider that just consumes the content, it's not really my place to speculate on the inner workings of the company. If there are real fundamental issues than I expect to hear more stuff pop up, at which point I would have to reconsider any monetary support. As someone that keeps away from social media, I don't know not do I entirely care to know the private choices of any members of staff, which seems to be an issue some other people have brought up. Oh well, I'm still here for all of the other videos they produce

Well this is a bizarre bummer. That’s a video less a week I’ll be getting but honestly the Cold Takes were starting to get a bit stale (might just be that the topics didn’t really affect me). I liked Frost on Windbreakers though. As for the rest, this is some all around unprofessional shit. I do appreciate the transparency we’ve gotten but some more information up front would’ve been nice so I didn’t have to go on twitter for the first time in years to get some more pieces of the story. As for Nick… meh. If the rest of the team has stuck with him then either Frost (who is about my age but seems to have had a dozen careers so this might be a pattern?) is the only sane man in the room, or just thinks he is.

Honestly all I needed to see were the people supporting Frost on Twitter to know that he's not the one in the right. If anything, I feel cheated by someone who apparently agrees with Grumzz having been part of the team

This is... Disheartening. I know some of y'all are on the younger side and I think this is a fairly substantial growing pain. I can only hope lessons are learned. And dear lord, nick you gotta stay off Twitter. I think it's starting to really frame your entire view of the industry and while it can be useful for certain things, it is NOT all encompassing. Perspective is important to get, and your colleagues are (by all accounts) trying to help you realize that, but this is going to be a wake up call, hopefully.

Will the windbreaker podcast end or will it just be a duo pod like before?

Escapist/SW's shows like FR, Cold Take, and Design Delve were some of the best gaming videos to be put on YouTube. Having such a team to be broken apart by one person's incompetence is disheartening. I'll try to see what other SW staff have to say, but I'm considering ending my subscription.

Grummz friends faking unsub and making snide comments on here wasn't predictable at all.

Voting with my wallet and dropping my subscription for a bit. I don't agree with how Frost left but some of my suspicions have been confirmed by what's been shared. 2nd Wind is not as equitable as I believed it to be which I find disappointing considering the risk involved for everyone when they quit the escapist. Perhaps that's on me for expecting that the new group would balance things out. If I see that that those on lower bands have been levelled up closer to the top bands in reflection their contributions, then I'd happily bump back up the patreon tiers. I know this sounds very arrogant of me, and happy to stand by that accusation, but I support 2nd Wind because of everyone involved and the risk they took, my subscription should support them fairly according to their commitment and work in the present.

Also I don't care what Nick does in his off time if he and the team deliver good content. Twitter is a cesspool where everyone will inevatebly mutate in some form. Keep clear of it and you are fine.

Unsub. Good luck with things!

didn't expect frost to be the one with a hot take. (couldn't resist) but for real, frost sounds like he's still green behind the ears and didn't know how to be more professional. And I don't mean this is as an attack. it just seems like a rash decision made by someone with some life experiences but not enough therapy to see he's projecting. Frost if you read this, wish you the best; just think you may have been a bit too hasty and whee bit self-righteousness in your tweet.

I didn't like Cold Take anyway. I don't need weekly the-industry-is-going-to-crap videos. Trying to keep my mood up.

...I have no clue what's happening.

The most concerning thing is that Frost has, in my opinion, some of the most insightful thoughts and commentary on the way industry affects creativity and production, so him turning that all-cutting laser on Second Wind and leaving this gash is a potential wake-up call.

Nick is very obviously not the person he held himself out as. Using fan's money and goodwill for his ego. I could forgive him being a keyboard-warrior troll in his off time, but it has obviously bled into his professional life. This was exactly the sort of behavior that was originally problematic at the Escapist. They might have been greedy corpos, but that doesn't mean they were wrong about Nick. Frost is a real one, and if he has to resign because something is rotten with Nick then Second Wind doesn't deserve our money.

Just want to send some positivity towards the rest of the team who has to stomach the news, excellent byte size recently, I want to compliment others but I'm to NSFW for life. Design Delve is a good series too, also can someone tell me what KC eats, this guy always cracking in any live, a stream with the Jesses Jack and KC is like a Late Show . Cheers to all. ( Ignore the haters ! Peace )

It's a little like watching your parents fight - I want everything that both of them are saying to be wrong and to say that everything's ok

Can you provide us where to find Frost's post that this update mentions? This and seems to discuss some of the specifics of it, and I understand how it might be galling to share, but it would seem in spirit with the idea of transparency that this post mentions, and I know that I am curious and suspect others are as well.

I read over his resignation, doesnt seem terribly professional. Sounds like people didnt agree with his suggestions, he was out voted and he took that personally instead of maintaining a professional manner, bad mouthing his colleagues on the way out. I'm sure there will be people upset by his departure but I look foward to SWs continued work. The team was solid for a long time before frost, it'll be fine after.

This is deeply concerning.

I was never here for Nick, I was here for the creatives and their insights. This is incredibly worrying as a patron, for such claims to be levied. I hope this situation is rectified otherwise I will no longer be consuming your content.

you know where frost is going?

Anyone know where this post of Frost's is located?

I enjoyed Frost's work and am sorry to see him go, but I still stand behind you all. Thank you for the updates and the openness on this.

This is a big hit to me. On the previous channel Frost was the first person other than Yahtzee that I would watch. However, second wind has done an amazing job of putting out content worth watching. I hope all parties find the success they are looking for.

Distressing to see this level of dissatisfaction from a guy who quit his job to get this started only nine months ago. I am concerned.

Not stoked on all this. I'm not here for Frost or Nick, so it's really concerning to be hearing any of this at all. It's what made The Escapist a drag to associate with, and it's giving me pause about sticking around

That sucks.

It was nice having Frost’s Cold Takes, but I also agree with this team’s initiative to keep public their finances and other affairs! That level of communication and honesty seems unachievable for some, when really it should be the gold standard for all.

Sad day. Does Frost have a channel of his own he'll be doing things on? I'd love to support both you and him.

Damn.. what a bummer.

*bass drop*

One thing you really don't want to become is the next version of the company you guys quit.

Bummer

Sorry to see Frost go, but the transparency is appreciated.

Too bad about Frost. I like where you all are going.

Man, not Frost! 😭 And right as I’m listening to noir jazz, too!