AOT S4E28 - The Dawn of Humanity

Just to clarify tho... Eren wasn't saying to Historia that he'll use the founding titan to wipe Eldia's crimes/history from the memories of the world, because remember the founding titan can only control subjects of Ymir, so the entire rest of the world would be unaffected. He just meant that it's something he can do if she can't live with that outcome on her conscience. Alternatively she suggests the pregnancy, which delays the military's plans bc having her eat zeke whilst pregnant is too dangerous and carries too many unknows, risking the life of the only royal left. Regardless, we absolutely ARE meant to struggle with Eren's reasonings. I'm actually really surprised that you've been waiting for something "big enough" to justify Eren's actions for so long, when for a while the show has been building the idea that there is simply nothing that can justify such largescale terror, even if he "knows something" that we don't, hence the schism between Eren and the rest of the gang. Also, it can be worthwhile noting that just because he became the founding titan and has immense power and future memories, doesn't remove the fact that at the end of the day he's a traumatised teenager who feels like he's carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders, and isn't nessarily making rational decisions just because of his foresight. His specific stubbornness, rashness, and thirst for freedom/ refusal to submit are still part and parcel of his character and decisionmaking. Makes me think of Reiner's line "of all people, the coordinate had to fall into the hands of the worst possible person." There isn't necessarily a divine or acceptable justification for the rumbling, it's simply an inevitable outcome of a boy radicalised beyond saving, who fell into immense power, and tried his best to find alternatives but saw no other escape.

I'll never get over how Eren saying "I'll wipe out every last one of 'em from the world" was about destroying the titans to save humanity in s2, and now its about using the titans to wipe out humanity in s4 </3

Historia has lost Ymir that’s why she looks depressed or dead behind the eyes

in season 2 finale, Mikasa was about to kiss Eren, But when he heard her words he got the motivation to live, turn into a titan and punched the smily titan. Even in memories of the future episodes when they got to the memory when Eren defended Mikasa from the kidnappers he stood and watches her when she said: it's warm. So there's a romance but the show is too dark and too complicated i understand that you aren't convinced enough.

I really think your recurring issue of wanting Eren to have this massive reason for doing the rumbling is brilliant and highlights what the show and other characters are about. Because he’s the MC, you keep expecting Eren to have a good reason for his decision but that’s just it, there isn’t and will never be one to justifying murder of this magnitude and I know it’s frustrating because again, Eren is the MC but he let his desires turn him into the villain

Though fucked up, Eren’s plan of wiping the rest of the world and erasing the memories of the remaining Eldians could work to stop the cycle of war. Granted, that would only start a different type of war centered about something entirely different

After finished the movie, you can rewatch ss2 ep12 again for love plot between Eren and Mikasa. I fully understand that scene after rewatch again. It's the episode they confess each other feeling.

If you missed the romance, there’s a couple of scenes to rewatch. Season 2, when Hannis has just been killed by Dina’s titan (who ate Erens mum), mikasa and eren are knelt there and it’s gorgeous. Also, a scene which i think was end of season 1?? Where they’re in a room, others are there but are called away for a debrief or something and it’s just eren and mikasa, eren was injured and in bed. Both scenes you can sense the feelings between them.

You’re looking at it wrong, he repeatedly states that he’ll do everything to save the people close to him. Keep that as the goal and reverse engineer the actions needed for that

I personally think Heavenly Delusion and Summertime Rendering are great animes to follow after AOT.

The romance is beautifully woven into the series; it’s a romance that actually serves the story. A prime example is Armin’s love for Annie, which stemmed from Bertolt’s memories being transferred to him and was brilliantly used in the plot. There are also a few other love relationships that are incredibly well-crafted. If you just think about it, you’ll realize that everything in the show has a meaning—even love, nothing in this work is arbitrar

Eren spent the entire final arc desperately trying to flip the coin differently. He actively looked for signs that the future could be changed. The coin always landing on the same side is the perfect metaphor for the tragedy of absolute determinism. The tragedy of the Attack Titan's power is that it creates a bootstrap paradox (a closed causal loop). Eren did not follow a path because it was written; the path was written because Eren’s unyielding nature would never choose anything else

Does anyone know if he's watched the OVA's? The Mikasa and Levi ones are particulat excellent, but the other ones are also really fun (I love the first one centered around the titan!). Would love to see him react to those

Don’t know if you noticed but the ending dialogue from eren in this episode was the exact same dialogue in season 1, the difference is in season 1 he said it about the titans, and now he’s saying it about human kind. Crazy how this story has flipped since season 1. Also I part of me can see why eren went to this extreme, if you think about human behaviour and how easily the masses can be influenced to cancel/hate someone or a group of people. It was literally kill or be killed. I don’t think stopping at Marley would have had any benefits they would still be targeted by the entire world/nations. But still to go that far is insane !!

I also never got romantic vibes. They were strictly siblings to me considering they were raised together and Grisha also referred to Mikasa as his daughter 😭

I hope now you watch the opening of second half of s4..

Someone has probably mentioned but just in case - Eren repeating that phrase "Keep moving forward" is something he picked up from Reiner. He said that to Eren and the others several times in Season 1. I'm sure there's a more proper analysis to be done there, but to me I think it's simply that Eren liked the phrase and ended up latching onto it because he truly felt it applied in his life/the story. Or I could see it being a super direct nod to the parallels between Eren and Reiner. Eren does tell Reiner that they're the same during the Declaration of War speech.

Oh! I don't know if anyone has told you or if its come up while searching for the show but there's a chibi version of aot where they are all in school. Nothing serious, but its real fun and it has the official VAs (at least in English)

the visuals at the beginning of the first movie are my absolute favourite throughout maybe any show i’ve watched. im so excited to see what you think of those visuals!!

These subtitles are shit💔💔💔

yeah, Mikasa has had a very obvious crush on him for a long time, the first time he touched Dina and commanded the Titans she literally tried to kiss him, also Jean has a thing for Mikasa (rewatch his fantasy scene)

the ending episodes can are also split up in each episode so you can probably watch them piece by piece so it isn't too much content in one go

jamaal you gotta watch the ova's before the ending, they're really fun and give little bits of fun character tidbits on different characters we meet throughout the show and i think give a little oomph to the finale

The romance was portrayed sparingly but quite clearly I think. Just seemed one-sided. In season 1, Levi explicitly refers to Mikasa being in love with Eren. The time when she disobeys his orders as they are rescuing him from Annie, and she gets flustered.

I will say I think a lot of ppl just miss the romance but but it was always quite clear to me that they have feelings for each other. In season 2 scream they low-key tease a kiss before Eren turns and Mikasa basically lays her heart out in that ep. To me its just that the nature of the show doesn't have time to actually explore a romance since it wouldnt make sense with all the fighting, war and other stuff they gotta deal with.

I could not be more excited for these last reactions lol

I wouldn't call them more like siblings, but i don't blame you since they never specify but Eren and Mikasa only lived with eachother for about a year in the Jaeger household

WATCH Aot ep 8 lost girls of attack on titan before the finale. The foreshadowing in this ep is mind blowing as well as answers your question with mikasa and erens relationships through Mikasas eyes.

I’m so interested to see what you’ll think of the ending especially with a bunch of takes mentioned in this upload

This comment is probably going to sound a bit vague because I never want to spoil anything. So far, this season has strongly hinted at, or outright stated, that Eren's motivation comes down to an "it's either us or them" dilemma. If that answer doesn't feel satisfying, there's another core value of Eren's that has been consistent since the very beginning of the show. If you dwell on that, you might arrive at an even more satisfying explanation for why he's doing what he's doing. If you remember me after you've watched the last two movie episodes, I'd love to come back and discuss this again and see what conclusion you ended up reaching. One more cryptic hint, because I originally wanted to comment after "Two Brothers." There's a piece of foreshadowing that I think is easy to overlook: when Zeke throws Eren the baseball. When Zeke talks with Ksaver about his ideology, throwing and catching the baseball symbolizes understanding and agreement between them. In "Two Brothers," Eren doesn't catch the ball and brushes it off by saying he's sluggish from being in the hospital. Then, once they're in the Coordinate, Eren reveals that he was lying the whole time and never intended to go along with Zeke's plan. That baseball moment appears several times throughout Season 4, but "Two Brothers" is the only episode that shows the rest of the interaction. To me, it's a great example of how Attack on Titan is written on multiple layers. On the surface, it's just Zeke saying, "Let's not make contact just yet," and tossing Eren the ball. Underneath, it's also quietly telling you that Eren never truly accepted Zeke's ideology.

The moment between eren and historia was a show dont tell kinda thing, in that moment eren saw his whole future, all the cruel atrocities , so cruel that if you see his face in that moment you can tell hes shocked / afraid, so that affected him personally , because past present and future were all happening at the same time in his head, and he got sure more and moree of that “vision” as the time went on, because the things he saw happened exactly as he saw in his vision (thats why when he learned the death of sasha, he laughed, cuz he was sure that his destiny is already detrmined).

I always thought the romance between Eren and Mikasa was quite obvious, at least from Mikasa's POV. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but when Annie captures Eren in season 1, Levi makes a comment that goes something like "we get it you're in love with the guy" to Mikasa in the English dub -- but maybe the Japanese and subtitles didn't translate it the same way. To me it truly became an established theme/fact after that scene and I went on to watch the series with that perspective in mind going forward.

I’m so so so excited about the movie length episodes, they are genuinely so good

It's fascinating to me that the romantic subplot was not obvious for you, but that could be because the show never made it central. We just know Mikasa loves Eren and that love grew into romantic love as they got older. It's Eren's feelings that were always unclear. As for why we spent so much time on seeing the scouts interact with those displaced people in Marley, it has meaning regarding the impact & weight of Eren's actions. Not just on the people, but Eren himself. My advice to you: Trust the process. Even if you don't agree with outcome, you'll understand.

Please do yourself a favour and listen to the ending song from this season. Both it and Rumbling are Eren persona songs. The ending song Akuma no Ko (child of the devil). The words and visuals add lovely depth to what is already presented.

An intensely formative moment in the show and with Eren’s character for me is in season 1, it doesn’t overtly come up again, but while being chased by the Female titan, Levi tells Eren “Decide. Either believe in yourself or the soldiers of the Survey Corps, myself included”. Eren chooses to trust them and the whole squad dies in the process. That sacrifice is the way of those wearing the ‘wings of freedom’ the scout regiment. That symbol carries the ethos of giving your life to carry humanity closer to a freedom you might never see. That truly is what Shinzo Sasageyo means.

in an interview the creator actually admitted that he avoided writing a direct explicit romance between eren and mikasa because he was too shy to draw it 💀

I do think the romantic subplot is a bit undercooked, however she did literally try to kiss him at the end of season 2.

You are right to feel that what Eren is doing and what he explained is never enough for destroying the entire world. We are not supposed to root for him. But you will get his main motivation in the next episode and confirmed by the ending even tho there’s a lot of unreliable narration and lies too. Also, I always thought it’s clear that Eren had feelings for Mikasa especially post time skip. S2 ending was supposed to be end of him feeling emasculated by Mikasa’s strength and he became very soft towards her. It’s like subtle moments throughout. There is a blushing they share in one of flashbacks episode too, him lingering in Memories to watch the moment when he wrapped the scarf around her, “ what am I to you” scene, Even when he said he hated her, it’s supposed to start the arc for Mikasa and this also shows how their love and relationship was going to be the main part, Eren basically says to Zeke he can’t do anything about it with Mikasa since doesn’t know if he’s going to live or die. And I thought it was obvious that Mikasa loved him. S2 ending alone shows that, there are alot of moments and it’s a bit more clear in manga too, anime cut 1 to 2 scenes, but yes this was always a thing, and their dynamic is tragic with subtle moments of romance throughout. Her thinking about Eren, Eren attacking her weakness etc, Eren’s memory shards (in manga, Mikasa is the biggest memory), Infact, it’s Mikasa’s words in s2 after that Eren become soft towards her and everyone. Eren literally blushed when he wrapped his scarf around Mikasa and was only a bit resentful towards her because of her overprotectiveness and physical superiority but once Mikasa explained how much he cares about him and thanks him for wrapping the scarf around her Eren's demeanor towards her changes and he even starts staring at her . It’s true that they both fully don’t understand nature of their feelings but it was always clear that their relationship was going to be the important to story even from 1st episode under the tree. It’s Mikasa who motivated him to fight Annie, it’s her who saved him from feeling useless in s2 ending, it’s her who supports him when’s he’s anxious about the basement. Eren verbatim tells her that he's not her brother or son and Eren is in fact upset when he perceives she treats him as such. You have people in anime mistaking them as boyfriend and girlfriend. They refer to each other as friends and never as brother and sister, like, ever. There's a reoccuring gag that Jean, who has an obvious crush on Mikasa, is shown to be jealous of their relationship. And makes a joke Eren was peeping on her. At most, I could understand that to some people, maybe their family-like dynamic isn't clear on whether it's platonic or romantic.. But in terms of what the show and manga tells us, nothing shows that these two actually see each other as siblings. If that was the case, it would have been explicitly written as SO. Personally, I thought their relationship was set up in a clear “will they won't they." So while I completely understand perspectives on it not being clear if the exact nature of their feelings are romantic, or if it's one-sided, I can't agree that it came out of nowhere. Even in s1 and s2, how sensitive Eren was when it came to how Mikasa perceived him, as well as his inferiority complex that didn't really exist with any other character besides her (in fact he outwardly admired other people who were better than him and praised their growth, but with her he saw it as a threat to his sense of self) as a sign that their relationship was something more set apart compared to others. That scene when they are preparing to defeat Rod, after thinking about how strong Historia has become, he looks at Mikasa and realises that she's been with him throughout everything. His whole expression of realisation in that scene. And it makes even more sense, given the tragedy of the story, that by the time he's fully made sense of his feelings, it was too late like he said to Zeke. I thought this was very accurate to an immature insecure teen boy who was also very emotional and traumatized and appreciated how realistic it was to real life, imperfect human relationships. That's one of the reasons why I appreciated AOT's characterizations in general, they felt like actual flawed, complex people! Also, In s3 it was shown Eren’s is a bit clueless… he was the only one that didn't realize Hitch had feelings for Marlo. Eren and Mikasa's relationship has always carried romantic undertones, Mikasa's feelings for Eren are made explicitly clear, not just in her protectiveness, but in the way she grounds her entire identity in staying by his side, constantly reminding him to "be careful" and always wearing the red scarf he gave her. Her attachment is consistently framed as love, not just sibling like loyalty, and the manga itself pushes that interpretation by showing how her emotions for him surpass duty or habit. Eren, on the other hand, has always struggled to articulate his emotions, but the signs of his romantic feelings are woven throughout the narrative. There’s alot more to be said, but i feel like it’s enough for now since you will understand their relationship better and it will be more easier for me to express how their dynamic in the most important part of the show and how it is romantic.

I like that in a way you are struggling with finding a rational justification for Eren's clearly irrational decision of genocide.

Thanks for another brilliant commentary!! Gosh. Interesting that the romantic subplot never landed for you! It's both subtle and sidelined, yet quite loud. Perhaps it's because it was never really a priority for Eren, but it feels quite clear from Mikasa, especially when we think about Jean's jealousy at Eren, over Mikasa. And when Eren says he only has 4 years left it's a poignant reminder that they're so young. He's at an age where romance might be something to bring up with her and ... look where they all are. edit: A few episodes ago, you spoke of want Eren to have a good enough reason that would make all these actions feel reasonable, inevitable. Yeah. I think you articulated how many of us felt, how the show wants us to feel, and the core tension of this part of the story.

jam would you consider watching death note before vinland saga or putting it up to a vote? just because its actually complete and shorter and also pretty fast paced and a classic that's always recommended to beginners with anime??

fun fact Armin doesn’t have ears on his titan form… people interpret this as him not wanted to hear the screams of his victims…

yay

Ur uploads have been my favorite notification recently icl