march video
human shaped robots redux
Comments (64)
Internet of Bugs is a channel I've just come across, and he's been talking excellent sense recently in a similar vein to Angela. He points out that all the AI doomed stuff is actually pushed by the industry to distract from the real harm AI is doing to people and the environment right now
Not sure if you follow Gary Marcus and his crusade to stop the moneyed interests from touting LLMs as AGI – with all the damage and bs this has entailed – but I received this link from him today and it reminded me that, as also being a truth-teller, you guys have a lot in common: https://garymarcus.substack.com/p/breaking-expensive-new-evidence-that?publication_id=888615&post_id=190953692&triggerShare=true&isFreemail=false&r=5gaw4y&triedRedirect=true
For lack of a more fitting space, I need to say it again: "Rising to the occasion" and the "pomp that feels good", the whole series ST: Starfleet Academy has loads of those moments, but episode 10 has one that made me think of your comments on this more than all the others. It's like they watched your Picard video.
So the consensus is still that any human shaped robot is either a Mechanical Turk (as mentioned in the video, a scam PR campaign) or a Blade runner (something that has a slim excuse for existing and if you squint it may look cool but it's solely for satisfying human perversion). The thing that truly delighted me in February was that I discovered Stanislaw Lem wrote a book with the title of "Science Fiction and Futurology" and it's basically a 500 page compilation of all of his ideas about literature and criticism and about his own craft. The only downside is he spoilers and dissects a couple hundred sci-fi books, so it's a good idea to read all the books that were written before 1972 and saving it as the best for the last.
Thanks. I'm old enough and well-enough read in SF to take your advice. In hindsight, the aversion to spoilers is attached to a young person's obsession with novelty. There's some notion that we need to collect knowledge of the world, any redundancy in our process reduces our efficiency, and that we have finite storage capacity. All of that is true, but what it misses is the greater importance of critical perspective. That is, healthy doubt is far more valuable than being smart. In short, stories that don't rely on surprise for their impact tend to be better. They endure rereading and stand up to time. If you're too into stories that take you by surprise, that's a shortcoming in your own reading or viewing habits. As an example, when Paul Krugman gets into conversation with Phillips O'Brien, I can see how smart Paul is, he never lets us forget it. Even though he goes through the motions of being humble, and he uses his intellectual tools to second-guess himself. But, you know, that just seems kind of superficial. Where O'Brien is more of a regular guy. Smart enough, but not really out of the ordinary. But he's really graceful at being open about changing his mind when he got things wrong. That's one of the hardest things for experts to do. They get so entrenched in their own superiority that they go years without really seeing clearly. I learn far more from Paul, but O'Brien's insights are consistently high-value. He can contradict conventional wisdom without going off a cliff.
This video convinced me to join your Patreon. This is such great, important work you are doing. I don't see many people do it in the low-key conversational way you do. It's so good. I am happy to support your work.
I think that the monologue that begins at 32:30 is particularly impactful. More people need to hear that message. I also think it has big youtube short energy, if you do that, but I think that might just be the same energy that a good conclusion has.
And it's on Nebula. Hooray!
I just want to say thanks. You're a precious individual in a world of clones and whether you're talking about books, knitting or physics, you've got the rare knack of helping people see things in a different way even when they agree with you to start with.
Surgery robots are definitely already heavily in use. A friend is working on that: https://virtualincision.com/mira/ which is basically what you talked about, this is just a tiny arm that can be remote controlled. The bigger problem atm is shipping surgeons around, with these surgery robots they can do this remotely and do a lot more surgeries because they also don't have to prep their body for surgery every time.
Livestream sounds fun!
I somehow can't open the video in Patreon. Can you post the Youtube link? Sorry if I missed it :)
The video is a YouTube video. Might be the mobile app not showing that well. https://youtu.be/hKbolbsl-uk
Paused at the end of the Patreon 'hi' just to say, cool! Have started reading the book already -- somehow, despite meaning to for decades, I've never read any Le Guin, so this has been a kick in the arse to do so.
Oh, and although 7PM EST is midnight over here in the UK, I've got my fingers crossed the chat will happen on a Friday or Saturday. No worries if not, I mean, it'll be good to have read the book anyway!
I hear on good authority that Weyland industries will soon be taking orders for the med pod you describe. Of course, only oligarchs will be able to afford one.
Angela, you've made a statement in passing before about how you did your PhD and wanted to use it to combat climate change/energy crisis. Im not sure where you ended up but I find myself struggling with similar aspirations but I have ended up in corporate working for a billionaire. Can you speak how we must make a livelihood in a world that is on fire and -- in my case -- having to work for someone who is actively causing the world to be on fire? I think im struggling to reconcile my beliefs and values with having to work a job. I welcome anyone's input/discussions!
Mom gets the O2 mask before Baby. I have relevant experience. My family had the privilege of participating in awarding a memorial scholarship. Together with Cal Berkeley staff, we picked the winner based on the entrants writing up their story of why they decided they had wanted to come to Cal (mostly from community colleges) to earn their undergrad diploma from Cal. They had high hopes and generous hearts. After a few years, we would follow up on how they had fared, both at their graduation ceremony, and once they had moved into the real world. They had sharper definition of their ambitions at graduation, of course. And, after a few years out IRL, their war plans had not survived the rough and tumble of combat. They were almost all in more or less the situation you find yourself in. In my career as a software engineer, I had the privilege of working with a good number of physicists who had switched their own careers from physics to IT. Many of them had done so because they didn't want to do weapons research and testing. Their options in physics were limited. Their skillset was broad. Their contributions to the startup tech companies I worked for made them among our highest impact employees. The bottom line is you might find some escape hatch someday. And you might not.
Sultana of Swat swats another home run. Thanks!
Best rant ever. Starts with human shape robots, end with "Epstein Island stuff". Compelling argument, made my Sunday. You give Louis Rossman a run for his money
"These must fail for society to exist..." Sometimes one hears sounds of the future. & I hear this shouted from atop a burning cybertruck. To that future person... please get off of it. It's dangerous
We should do No Antimemetics in future (for the book club; I read the thing that had been in my read pile bc you suggested it)
Oh no not Mac Donald's Time to get myself some amnestics
But without human shaped robots in the future, Elon will never get laid again
I was gonna watch a horror film but I guess this works as an amus boosh. Excuse my French.
Strong recommend, the British series: Humans — Starring Gemma Chan <3
Well, I liked it. I don't know if that's at all the same as a strong recommend, though.
Yessss, Science videos!!! 💯💯💯 Book club sounds fun )) for recorded stuff, absolutely I concur. Also, zoom software alt note tho: Discord does have chat, video chat, messaging.
Robots with cameras and software can generalise to novel tasks and new environments. it isn't necessary for every action to be preprogrammed. https://youtu.be/UALxgn1MnZo?si=Ofq7eqERkMKSp673&t=527 (this is not a humanoid robot) (this is an advert for a company and not a product you can buy) also did you watch no other choice? good film. pretty much the exact paper company scenario you described.
Does anyone in the US want to know how owners of "regular" US-style pickups are regarded in Europe, if someone drives a regular Dodge Ram or Ford F150 or whatever, in Europe? To us, they are those lame losers that you in the US see only in Cybertruck drivers. A pickup driver in Germany is going to be a fragile racist neo-Notsee loser, with a probability of over 95 %. And please don't think that it's any different in say, Poland, or Italy, or France, or whatever. The US is the freak in the room. There is of course a difference, being the electronic surveillance aspect of the Elon Whiner loser jerk.
I'm in the UK and I'd agree that's pretty much the attitude here too. It is a very different situation on the roads here, with less room and usually less distance, and alternative transport means compared to USA. Not to mention fuel prices!
Designing robots in a human shape and treating them like a toaster is exactly what the TNG episode "The Measure of a Man" is about. You, Angela, know that, as will most viewers. But some might not, and if they're here: you will love it. Watch it. Just do it.
Regarding abusive behaviour towards other humans. I think in the US, customers can be as rude as they like (and very many are), and employees are supposed to never complain, to never talk back, to never tell a customer "I won't serve you as long as you treat me like that or yell at me". If you as an employee do that, you're fired. If someone from the US with this expectation goes abroad ... I can't speak for the whole world, but in the European countries I know, the employees would be allowed to stand up for themselves, and the manager would probably get involved without anyone asking them, and they would tell the customer to eff off and leave. They would protect their employee before any potential loss of patronage. And employees expect this at their workplace, we want to know we are safe and that our boss makes sure we are treated with respect. Just one more variant of the cult that is the US, that worships money and power, and that treats human beings as consumables.
The channel I subscribed to and then decided to join your patreon, that was a channel that was luckily showing how stupid some commenters are. I like unfiltered expression. Please don't water down the very thing that we're here for. And people who turn a video into a podcast, well that's their choice. They chose not to delight in your facial expressions, so why do you explain other visual stuff, to people who chose to disregard the visual part, to chop off one leg without anyone pressuring them?
Some are unable to see video, and not necessarily by choice. Just a thought.
Surgical "robots" in a form very close to what you described in the video, have existed and been used for years. Mechanical tools that are remotely driven by a human doctor. Some even work remotely over the internet. Also if you plan the livestream at the end of March, I won't be able to participate (and I was looking forward to it). I go away on vacation for a week, no internet (on purpose).
was the "I Was Wrong" thumbnail just a joke or was Angela wrong about something? idgi
Just started the video, but I'm excited about book club, except I'll be out of the country, so depending on the timing, it may be way too early in the morning for me. :( Also, bookstop.org has disappointed me with their proprietary ebook format, instead of selling DRM-free epubs.
I got to flip off a WankPanzer driver this week. Very satisfying. She said bad things about me. I'm ok with that.
All great points about the bathroom cleaning robot, but another total fantasy is that every single business has a bathroom, at least for employees and often for customers, and you’re telling me that every mom & pop restaurant that is on such a thin margin and can barely turn a profit, to the extent they rarely survive 3 years, they’re all gonna have the capital to up-front purchase and maintain a highly-specialized bathroom cleaning robot that will also require babysitting/maintenance? Custodial work by human beings is not going away. Though custodial workers may, in businesses with more $ to burn, have little specialized robotic tools that assist with some tasks.
Do Americans not shake their ketchup bottles?
My impression is the Anticipation commercial was highly effective in helping to entrench the upside-down bottle concept.
This might honestly be the best commentary video I've ever seen. And I've seen too many.
If pastors had this sauce then America would be okay
Like your name. BTW, my favorite pastor is named Al.
At least New Hampshire is pretty 😔
Parts of it, for now 🥴
Awesome! I've been listening to TLHoD (narrated by George Guidall)! I hope you enjoy it and I look forward to your take on it. Thank you for the good rant on robotics! The dishwasher example is great even though I would still rather just do my own dishes rather than listen to a machine chug away at it, but I'm a weirdo. Robots are really industrial technology. They assemble things (for engineers) that require precise, repetitive and sometimes dangerous tasks. Now we have somewhat cheap little robots that can 3D print or machine things at home. There are some brilliant engineers making cool stuff with them. Does that mean that it's something everyone needs in their home? I think of all the little raspberry pi and like devices sitting in drawers that may have even been hooked up to a single LED to blink a little before they were forgotten. 3D printers are a bit more bulky and come to think of it, I could put some handy drawers where the dishwasher in my kitchen is.
I travel a lot so it's useful to have little "robots" around to keep track of the house while I'm gone. I can turn lights off remotely, or check whether there are water leaks, or even open a lock to let someone in who I didn't anticipate needing to get in. And yes, a lot of it can run on a raspberry pi sitting in a closet. I like the dishwasher because modern ones use remarkably small amounts of water relative to the amount of dishes they clean. I also develop robotic science and engineering systems for work (none of them are even vaguely humanoid), so I'm probably biased...
This seems like the essence of conservatism. This love of authoritarian and abusive relationships, always on the assumption that they, the conservatives, will never be on the receiving end of the abuse. And boy are they shocked when that assumption turns out to be wrong.
Angela that surgery robot you described exists exactly as you described it. I don't know if you were joking or 30 years late to invent this
Yes. Those machines are certainly amazingly useful but marketing as “robotic surgery” makes them sound more autonomous than they are.
Glad to see this, just joined and happy about it. The book recomendation led me to comment. Don't read that much but getting better at it, a slow pace seems to do. I remember "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" people were talking about when the takeaway away was about how to live your life, a fairly strong popularizing trend in the 70's. Several variations on this kind of theme. I guess the trend has kept going. The title indulges in the flexibility of meaning. I prefer social comprehension as a medium of communication, it is relatively safe yet empowering. These views on how to escape and succeed are not new. A feeling I recognize quite well. It's important to be careful with robots, no matter what the type. I do think that replicating the human form is an ideal that probably has plateaued. If we can have things like vibe coding and generic labelings that come as easily assignable as sound bites it shows the creative labelings we keep coming up with. There is a whole range of quality and efficacy of these. One might wonder if this is a problem in itself as a barage of contemporary colloquialsms.
Great video and great reiteration of the point. I think you are right about the two driving aspects of this, 1) the lack of imagination in a lot of people who like this and 2) the desire to have a human do their bidding. Much of what is called AI is already just an interface for cheap, exploited labor in low income countries. One reason why some slavery was ended is that in certain economic configurations of capitalism it is cheaper to have laborers at subsistence wages, with them fending for their own reproduction than slaves that you have to provide food and shelter for. That is I think the model they want, they will be paid just enough to survive where they live, which is akin to slavery.
Serfdom is what it is, but hard agree.
Seattle has an apparently successful robot barista that's an arm with googly eyes mounted in front of an espresso machine. I've never been but it's been around for a few years? Their website is trying to sell or rent you your own, which is shockingly expensive so I don't think it'll be used to replace baristas who try to unionize anytime soon.
Angela i hope you feel better.
your book club pitch sounds a lot like a google classroom. patrons can interacts but have limitations idk
1. Your science videos give my brain the best kind of break from the horribleness that is the world. Thank you for doing them! 2. There's a stupid little "robot" at a food court I enjoy frequenting. It's meant to come by and collect dishes. It's so bad at it. It gets in the way and actual humans have to come by and do the work for it. 3. The worst mess I ever cleaned up working at a bar was when someone puked in a urinal. Just do it on the floor! I could have scooped it up with a dust pan at least!
2) is absolutely right. Almost all interaction with "robots'" on the customer side is a gimmick at the moment. Whether that is greeting robots that know nothing and are super slow, or the table serving robots. Maybe the grass cutting robots have some utility, I personally don't see the vacuuming ones as being worth it. But again with all of those Angela is correct that they at least have a shape that makes some sense for the task.
sure none of us are weirdos???? ohhh, who wouldn't do anything heinous. Right. :-D
More science videos - yay!
2:20am GMT, bedtime can wait I suppose…
Yes! Been looking forward to this. Thanks Angela…